Razor Flashback #4 "Ever Skydive with a TOS Cylon?"

[Gemini1999]

This is interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwBqn7B5r_4

It's not as cool as last week, but not too bad.

Bryan

[Bishop37]

http://www.cylon.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11201

[Commander Taggart]

God, but it's depressing to see TOS-style ripped off Cylon designs force injected into that drek.

*shakes head*

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Guys, I thought that was really feakin' cool!

Presuming they keep it under $20, I'll probably shell out the cash for the DVD just for that sequence. Those 2 minutes might be the only thing I watch from the show, but I thought that was some really cool shit!

If they had made GINO like this, I'd have been a big, big fan.

I wasn't too impressed with the battle last week but for me, this was some really cool stuff.


Sandy

[Darth Marley]

It is the last minisode with any spectacular SFX.

They pad out the rest of them with young Will Adama finding a lab where the "First hybrid" was made.

All of the minisodes before Adama in the lab were cut from Razor, but the parts from the lab forward are in the feature, as Adama remembering these details from the First Cylon War.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

If this isn't on the DVD then I likely won't be getting the DVD.


Sandy

[Commander Taggart]

I definitely won't be getting the DVD, and I'm still saddened by the whole thing.

If this had been GINO, it would still have been... GINO, driven by producers and writers who hate America and its military, and think our aversion to killing babies is a cultural bias.

[Alternity Orange]

I thought the CG cylon looked like crap. Granted though, I was watching it on a little herky-jerky you tube screen so I will try to watch it again. But I'm obviously not buying any GINO DVD.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

If this had been GINO, it would still have been... GINO, driven by producers and writers who hate America and its military, and think our aversion to killing babies is a cultural bias.

Not to sound combative because I am on your side and support the same feelings but I'm confused as to the application.

As I recall, when I voiced that I didn't care for Johnny Depp and anything he did because of his strong anti-American views, I was wholly encouraged by everyone I remember to look beyond that and just look at the material Depp presented, ignoring his personal stances.

With GINO, I've been putting great efforts into commenting on the material according to its individual segments regardless of what else the series production staff has said or done or the messages GINO has forwarded. This thread is about Razor webisode #4 not the New Caprica bit or miniseries, ... or so I thought.

With that in mind, other than questioning the actual origin of some of the material, I've thought these webisodes as a whole have been acceptable, with the last being some very cool stuff.

As for the CG, ... the key players weren't the ones who did these sequences. They were largely the "up and comers" so to speak, what I'd call the B-Team and knowing how the rest of the production unfolds, likely didn't have the first string resources to do these. With that in mind, I find them far more tolerable and at least get the sense that these guys tried to do something that was TOS-friendly ... regardless of Ron or Dave's intent. The CG did look somewhat video-gamish but considering that these weren't the focus of Razor, nor did they get the main resources, I think the guys did a commendable job. (Although I still think the camera motions with the video game were far superior).

What I see is an effort by fellow animators who undoubtedly worked hard to create a TOS-centurion sequence that didn't in any way seem like a slap in the face in my mind ... although I'd have liked it better if the centurion had been swinging a sword at the guy rather than using a knife.

If I'd have seen this in a production separate from GINO, I'd have been leaping out of my chair screaming "This is what Galactica can be!"

My views on this show's anti-American stance and moral challenges are so well known around here that most can recite my opinion before I type it but I also have to admit that I didn't see any of that displayed in this seqeunce, just a TOS-friendly centurion fighting it out in a freefall with an actor who could have as easily have been in a continuation ecept for the hardware surrounding him.

I thought it was cool.



Sandy

[Bishop37]

They would have refused to do that sequence in the original show because its so cheesy.

It's badly choreographed action that belongs in some late-eighties, early nineties action-fest that consists of strung together set pieces with no plot. You'd buy it then, if this thing was an Arnie or Bruce flick, but in GINO, it looks completely out of place.

From last week's clip, we know Young Mumbly clips a Raider and his Viper sustains damage, spinning out of control. The laws of physics say the Raider remains, of which the surviving Cylon pilot is a part of, would have still been travelling at it's original speed but at a different trajectory after the collision. It'd be hundreds of feet away (at least), unless, somehow the Cylon is clinging to the Viper, which considering what happens next is logical in it's illogic, but they're going for that anyway, so I'll go with it.

The sequence would have made more sense then (and been cooler), if the camera's POV would have been towards the Viper's now spinning nose and we see two robot hands (©RGrant) appear over the nose and the Cylon hoist itself menacingly towards the cockpit, or (scenario #2 [I typed scenario – Bill Maxwell would be proud ;)]) Young Mumbly looks up through his canopy roof to see the Cylon looming over his high engine ready to shoot or stab – and he blows the canopy (knocking the Cylon off his ship) and ejects.

As it is at the moment the sequence comes out of nowhere, farted out of the writer's arse of things that look cool but don't make any sense like big guns on ice planets that are capable of tracking a RTF through three-dimensional space.

Maybe next week Young Mumbly will ungrit his teeth and begin to enunciate.

[Tribe13]

I thought it was cool.



SandyIn that respect, I tend to agree. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's not the F/X crew's fault that the story is screwed up. Place blame where blame is due.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I think they would have done this with the original had technology have allowed it at the time. As much as I love the original, I can't say that a series that had the children invading the castle and Hector and Vector dancing would have rejected a sequence like this because it was too cheesy.

In fact, I'll go as far as to say that had they been able to do this in the original, it would have been one of the highpoints fans would still be talking about.

I think after most of GINO fades away, this will likely remain one of the key "cult moments" that are brought up time and again by fans, much as the Canadian commerical has left us with a high-point over the past couple of years.

My opinion is also that neither Ron nor Dave wrote this. It doesn't seem to be at all their style, which is probably one of the reasons I enjoyed it so much as I'm not much of a fan of their style most of the time.


Sandy

[Commander Taggart]

As I recall, when I voiced that I didn't care for Johnny Depp and anything he did because of his strong anti-American views, I was wholly encouraged by everyone I remember to look beyond that and just look at the material Depp presented, ignoring his personal stances.

Apples and oranges. Unless Depp is voicing that stance through the material, then they are two separate things. Depp as Willy Wonka is entirely removed from Depp as activist.

Ron and Dave use GINO to actively voice their gutter trash views. Thus, GINO's voice is their voice, and can't be looked at as two separate things.


What I see is an effort by fellow animators who undoubtedly worked hard to create a TOS-centurion sequence that didn't in any way seem like a slap in the face in my mind ... although I'd have liked it better if the centurion had been swinging a sword at the guy rather than using a knife.

I can respect that. Not enough to buy the DVD, mind you, but I can definitely respect professional... respect.


If I'd have seen this in a production separate from GINO, I'd have been leaping out of my chair screaming "This is what Galactica can be!"

Agreed... if this webisode, with no other context, appeared as some high-end fan production or even mysterious trailer in the time before GINO, I would probably have been a lot more excited about it. Remember, I was naive enough to originally have been a "Give It A Chancer."


I thought it was cool.

And I thought it was sad. But that's the context, not the content. Though I do think the TOS-style Centurion looked too much like a video game. I think a lot of GINO (granted, I haven't seen a lot) looks too much like a video game.

[Martok2112]

Although CGI has come a long way.. a lot of CGI based FX shows look like videogames. Space: Above and Beyond, Firefly, etc.

I even thought Serenity had moments that looked more like videogame cutscenes rather than "big damn FX shots".

Didn't kill the story though.

As far as video clip #4 this week for Battlestar Galactica, I have yet to see it. I'll wait til after it airs on Flash Gordon...in other words, at its Battlestar site, and check it out there. Youtube is not known for high quality video transfers anyway.

Respectfully,
Martok2112

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Apples and oranges. Unless Depp is voicing that stance through the material, then they are two separate things. Depp as Willy Wonka is entirely removed from Depp as activist.

Ron and Dave use GINO to actively voice their gutter trash views. Thus, GINO's voice is their voice, and can't be looked at as two separate things.

Its exactly the same thing in my mind. Whether Ron Moore wants to rant his political slants through an episode or Depp wants to do it in front of a newscamera, they're still both Hollywood personalities abusing their positions. Depp's job is to act. Ron's is to write entertaining story and know what he's writing about (even if its a fantasy world). When either start spewing skewed political rants on subjects where they have liimited to no knowledge, to me, they're guilty of the same crime.

The only difference is that its supposedly appropriate for me to resent one but not the other.


Agreed... if this webisode, with no other context, appeared as some high-end fan production or even mysterious trailer in the time before GINO, I would probably have been a lot more excited about it. Remember, I was naive enough to originally have been a "Give It A Chancer."

Then the issue isn't Razor webisode #4 but the creator and the series that spawned it. I can respect that but I don't think that clearly came through in your earlier description. What I heard was, "this is pure garbage" not "this is associated with a big pile of garbage so I can't enjoy it for that reason", which I understand with and even concur to some degree but link it back to the earlier bit about being upset at Ron and not at Depp.


I think a lot of GINO (granted, I haven't seen a lot) looks too much like a video game.

S1 had a lot of uncertain CG. S2 was very good and IMO S3, beyond the New Caprica bit had some top quality VFX. There wasn't nearly as much of it but the overall quality was very impressive. The webisodes are back to the video game quality but as I said, they weren't cranked out by the heavyweights on the CG team either.

In effect this is a fanfilm, ... its a very sophisticated fanfilm with the best budget any fanfilm could ever hope for but its still a big fanfilm. However, in that context, I really enjoyed it. In fact, this has been near the hilight of anything I've ever seen connected with GINO and the only thing I can think of that I'd rewatched.

For me, this sure kicked ass over the GINO Pegasus battle, which was some of the least impressive battle scenes I've seen in the past 20 years.


Sandy

[Eugenia]

As it is at the moment the sequence comes out of nowhere, farted out of the writer's arse of things that look cool but don't make any sense like big guns on ice planets that are capable of tracking a RTF through three-dimensional space.

I like "Gun on Ice Planet Zero". I will admit that I probably shouldn't for dumb things like that. However for me, it's one of those episodes where the cast's sincerity and sense of humour allow them to get away with it.

I can see Starbuck (played by Dirk Benedict) having a shoot-out with a Centurion while parachuting. It would probably even be funny.

I will agree that the writing on GINO has been atrocious, inconsistent, and doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I was right... it went down hill from last week.

As much as it would have been nice to enjoy seeing a TOS Cylon, the FX were just not up to par with last week and they were somewhat distracting.

I am really suprised that you are giving it a kind of pass, Sandy... as critical as you can be on such work. But, you liked it. That's cool.

With that said, I could have lived with the level of FX if the story it was telling wasn't so blatantly bad again!

Peter nailed it in his summary. This was about as believable as Katie plugging a hole in her spaceship with a jacket. First, as Peter stated, the two pilots would have been a lot further apart after their clipping each other and would have taken some doing for them to find each other. But worse then that... Adama just coincidently happens to be in a dog fight directly overhead of the secret base/lab and when he accidently clips the other ship, he just so happens to do it over this secret (might I add remote) base/lab, only to parachute directly into said secret and remote base/lab.... ohh and exactly where the TOS Cylon fell to boot.... yeah ummm okay!

:shock: :shock: :roll:

Sorry, but the true ineptitude of some of the show's makers has reared its ugly head again! :roll:

Ah well, not really suprised.


Malkyte

[Bishop37]

I like "Gun on Ice Planet Zero".

I do too. You know today, you'll hear some TV producer say: "It's like shooting a movie every week!" Well GOIPZ actually does look like a movie.

Despite it's bad science, It's a real nail-biter with excellent sets, stunning action set pieces and a strong guest cast.

I'm a big fan of "Fire in Space" too.

[JJRAKMAN]

Well, when you come right down to it, every SF show, movie or book has bad science.

Since new discoveries are made daily, the reality of space travel will not only unlike any sci fi show from the 70's, it will also be unlike any sci fi show from today or 20 years from now.

[Bishop37]

Well, when you come right down to it, every SF show, movie or book has bad science.

That's true, but BSG's was spectacularly inept. When you can't tell the difference between a solar system and a galaxy you're in deep do-do.

[JJRAKMAN]

Well, when you come right down to it, every SF show, movie or book has bad science.

That's true, but BSG's was spectacularly inept. When you can't tell the difference between a solar system and a galaxy you're in deep do-do.

Yeah now. But the 1970's audience wasn't that sophisticated unless they saw Carl Sagan's Cosmos.

[Martok2112]

Ok....finally saw the video.

The BAD: Yeah, it was a bit too quick....and the FX did seem a wee bit shoddier than last week's.

The UNCERTAIN: Not quite sure how to feel about the built in knife in the hand....but...that could be considered a predecessor to the built in auto-rifles on the new series Centurions' hands. Also, the Cyl-O-Vision seemed a bit primitive, but an interesting take on just what Cylons see through those oscillating eyes.


The GOOD: Original series "woooo....woooo" Cylon eye sound, as opposed to the "lightsaber" sound of the new Centurions. Original series Cylon, period. Nifty looking Cylon rifle.

The QUESTION: Do the Antebellum Centurions talk in the new show?

The VERDICT: Like the episodes.....To Be Continued. :D

Respectfully,
Martok2112

[Bishop37]

Yeah now. But the 1970's audience wasn't that sophisticated unless they saw Carl Sagan's Cosmos.

No, you'd have to be a complete thicko in any decade after say 1950 not to know the difference between a solar system and a galaxy.

[JJRAKMAN]

Yeah now. But the 1970's audience wasn't that sophisticated unless they saw Carl Sagan's Cosmos.

No, you'd have to be a complete thicko in any decade after say 1950 not to know the difference between a solar system and a galaxy.

I fully intend to add the word, thicko to my vocabulary. LOL

But seriously, I know you're what like 10 years older than me? I'm a gen X'r.

You honestly think the surplus 70's audience knew the difference? I mean outside of us Sci Fi geeks?

I was probably too young to really know, being what, I guess 7 years old when BSG firs aired.

I mean, look how long it's taken the surplus population to catch up with the concepts of cloning, hyperspace, dark matter, etc.

That's stuff that us sci fi and astronomy geeks have had dialogue of for decades already. But it's only been in the last 5 years or so that common folks have started to discuss these things.

[Bishop37]

I guess educational standards must have not been the same in the US. In junior school science we knew that the Earth revolved around the sun which was part of the solar system with nine planets which was in a galaxy called the Milky Way.

This may explain David Eicke. :twisted:

[JJRAKMAN]

No, I can remember being taught that in, say what, I think 7th or 8th grade, Which would have been 84 or 85.

But I do think most either just forget it, or copy off of their peers to pass.

There's alot of folks here who get into college after having coasted through high school with a D- average. ;)

Just watch Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" segments.

[Bishop37]

I started school in 1969. I would have thought your average person would have been au fait with the concept of a solar system from the moon landings.

[JJRAKMAN]

Are you kidding?

You're talking about a culture that airs daily TV shows chronicling the the undergarments of Britney Spears.

[Bishop37]

Are you kidding?

You're talking about a culture that airs daily TV shows chronicling the the undergarments of Britney Spears.

This definitely explains Universal executives. :lol:

[JJRAKMAN]

You're talking about a culture that airs daily TV shows chronicling the the undergarments of Britney Spears.

Hell, why do you think GINO is such a "big hit?"

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I am really suprised that you are giving it a kind of pass, Sandy... as critical as you can be on such work. But, you liked it. That's cool.

With that said, I could have lived with the level of FX if the story it was telling wasn't so blatantly bad again!

I thought the CG work in this one was a lot better than the stuff from the space battle. What makes this look like a video game is the lack of a true reflective surface on the centurion. Had that been added, with proper ambient lighting (I won't bore you with the details), this would have blown everyone's socks off.

Yet, I understand why that didn't happen. These guys had to crank this stuff out fast and doing it with HDRI and proper reflect settings would have literally changed each render from from something like 40 seconds (which is what I predict something like this took) to 24-40 minutes.

In my opinion, the rest of the elements in the sequence are pretty good. I think the camerawork in this is far, far superior to the space battle sequence. In fact, I noted in the previous webisode that the camerawork took a sudden improvement as soon as the action moved into the atmosphere.

As for the story on this so far being "so bad", ... I homestly don't get why these webisodes are garnering such an outlash on the content level. I concur on the concept of wondering why Ron and Dave suddenly think the original series is something to embrace after spitting on it the entire time. I share those thoughts. However, on content alone, I've been pleasantly surprised by these webisodes. The story to me is "Guy gets in Viper, gets shot down, fights with centurion during freefall, ... to be continued".

Its not the Ten Commandments but it isn't bad either. If the rest of GINO never existed and this was the only thing that we'd seen since G1980, I don't think many would have been disappointed with it. (I'd still ask why they picked such an ugly design for the Battlestar ... sorry, Peter but I still hate that ribbed thing).



In the other subject, up until the early 80s, the educational system in the USA was very good. Even that was a lesser system to that of the 1950s. I don't agree that the audience of the 70s didn't know their planets from their nebulas. I think the problem was that at that time, anything space-like sounded cool and writers mixed them as they would and audiences accepted that because a space show wasn't supposed to be anything more than guys in costumes with ray guns.

If you want a good comparison as to how badly we've fallen in the educational system, grab an owner's manual from the 50s, 60s, or even 70s and compare it to one from today. Using my boat's manual as an example, I have a book that tells me how to troubleshoot my diesel engine, including the steps to trace the wiring, replacing the starter, checking the water intakes, and so forth. Popular mechanics was the popular magazine of the time and if you find an old copy you'll see that it was written for a nation that did some pretty sophisticated stuff.

If you look at a modern owner's manual, it tells you how lucky you are to own the (fill in car, boat, or DVD player name here), and tells you what sounds to listen for that indicate you need to take your new toy to the shop to get it fixed. That's because on the whole, you don't want today's society disassembling anything because it won't likely get put back together again.


Sandy

[BST]

I give up. All that I've been reading, over here and elsewhere, is how "WE HATE GINO !!" and "IT SUCKS !!! " and then, when something like Razor is introduced or even a new episode, we sitting here complimenting it.

Why don't we just shutter all the "protest" forums and just post our affections for the show at Skiffy's site.

It would sure as hell save the owners of these various forums a fair amount of money and time.

For the record, I don't like the show .. that means any part of it. It doesn't exist, as far as I'm concerned.

For me, Galactica has NOT returned. Not the storyline, not the characters, nothing. Just some piss-poor attempt at capitalizing on the name.



Sorry if this rubs some the wrong way but, I'm sick of the double-standard. Either we walk away from it or we embrace it. There's really no middle ground.

I'll probably still be around but, I really don't have the time in my life to continue talking about a 4 year old show that I HATE.

Pete

[Bishop37]

The shape of the helmet is good face on. The blade coming out of the gauntlet I've thought before, would be cool, but the rest – it may be low-tech, but Dick Durock in a suit has nothing to fear!


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What exactly is the point of the scanner eye?

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5692/movieclipping91vk3.jpg

[Langolas]

What exactly is the point of the scanner eye?



Even as a kid I assumed it was a sensor sweep - scanning back and forth - probably in IR to scan for heat (as humans usually are warmer than ambient temperature). This however was not quite what I assumed it would look like -

[Bishop37]

This however was not quite what I assumed it would look like -

I think we can both agree on that.

If it was me making a TOS product I'd have funky graphics and all that felgercarb on it – a bit like Terminator-vision.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I give up. All that I've been reading, over here and elsewhere, is how "WE HATE GINO !!" and "IT SUCKS !!! " and then, when something like Razor is introduced or even a new episode, we sitting here complimenting it.


Pete,

I've noted understanding from Tribe and compliments from Steve and myself, and since Steve has always been a fan of sorts, I presume this is largely aimed at me.

In truth, I've never blindly said "I HATE GINO" in a manner that is the polar opposite of the GINO sycophants. I've noted many, many, many things I don't like about the series and they have overwhlemed the things I do like but when I've found something I did think worthy I've noted those as well.

As I recall, I was the one who said the GINO Hand of God episode was a good one and from my memory, when I said that, I at first stood alone until others checked it out and found something in it they also liked.

I liked the epsode where Kara is shot down, even with the stupid jacket stuffing. I liked when the centurions boarded the GINO battlestar. I liked the Hero episode, and the Dirty Hands episode, and the mercy killing episode, and said so. I even liked the freakish Kara pyschodrama from the New Caprica storyline and said that as well, even though it was the only thing I liked from any of it.

Again, this thread was about Razor Webisode #4. I watched it and really liked it. I said so, and to be totally honesst, the reactions are a little disturbing. Nobody has quite said I'm a traitor for seeing something I like in the series but the implication seems to be hovering over a few people's keyboards. That might be the impression but I am not now or never was a robot fan, who accepts or rejects anything regardless of how I truly feel about it.

I despised the children swarming the castle in the original series. By far, the most stupid Galactica-related episode outside of G1980. I really hated that concept. I hated it then and I hate it now. Despite that, I find Specter to be one of the greatest things ever created in Galactica. I love the character immensely. He came from that horrible episode. One bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch and a bunch of bad apples doesn't mean that by chance, there isn't a good one that can still be plucked from the mess and enjoyed.

Liking these webisodes doesn't mean I"m suddenly a big GINO fan, not that I'd much look for permission if I suddenly decided I was one. Disliking them doesn't make me any more of a Galactica fan. I can find elements in both series that I like and dislike. Admittedly, with GINO the like category is small and with Battlestar Galactica the dislike category is equally small, but regardless of the ratio, I don't concur that either series is 100% either way. That might be your criteria but it isn't mine.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4867/movieclipping41lm3.jpg

Still looks cool to me.

I suspect the design was changed to follow the "not a man in the suit" theme and in that, it wasn't too badly done. I still think the full man in the suit version is a lot better. This one looks less threatening because of the weaker limbs.

The eye scanner was a big disappointment. That could have been done 100 different ways and all of them would have been better than what they showed.


Sandy

[Gemini1999]

I give up. All that I've been reading, over here and elsewhere, is how "WE HATE GINO !!" and "IT SUCKS !!! " and then, when something like Razor is introduced or even a new episode, we sitting here complimenting it.

Why don't we just shutter all the "protest" forums and just post our affections for the show at Skiffy's site.

It would sure as hell save the owners of these various forums a fair amount of money and time.

For the record, I don't like the show .. that means any part of it. It doesn't exist, as far as I'm concerned.

For me, Galactica has NOT returned. Not the storyline, not the characters, nothing. Just some piss-poor attempt at capitalizing on the name.

Sorry if this rubs some the wrong way but, I'm sick of the double-standard. Either we walk away from it or we embrace it. There's really no middle ground.

I'll probably still be around but, I really don't have the time in my life to continue talking about a 4 year old show that I HATE.

Pete -

I do get that you don't like the show - you've never, ever restrained yourself from saying so in the past 4 years and nobody has ever criticized you for doing so. You'd almost think that after 4 years of saying the same thing, you would have gotten tired of it long ago, but yet I see you and a few others over at the Skiffy BSG board railing against the wind in the face of TNS fans all the time.

I'm your friend, but don't dictate to me what to like or how to like it (the "either we walk away from it or we embrace it" comment), I'm a big boy and I can think for myself.

I really don't get what you're in a stew about. There have been 2 two-minute segments in the past 2 weeks with TOS elements in them. Some people liked elements in last week's flashback and others like what they've seen this week. It's all about CGI, it's not about the show, its concepts, story, characters or what have you. I haven't seen people saying all of a sudden "I love Kara Thace". I don't see people on this board fawning all over the show and I also don't see the sky falling or websites closing their doors because of it.

Remember when we shuttered TNS out of our lives at Colonial Fleets, but we said that we would allow TNS art or CGI because we didn't want to discriminate against people that were artistically gifted in that area? Do you remember how hard it is to walk that line? Which part of TNS do we allow on the board and how much? Do you remember how Steve and the rest of us had to come to terms with all of that without someone feeling disenfranchised in the process? I love Colonial Fleets for what it was and all the people that used to be there, talking about their hopes and dreams of BSG and what was yet to come, but most of those people have left and moved on to other things and TOS conversation is rare these days. And before you say it - I'm not suggesting that we turn the board into a TNS board...

It's just something to talk about....face it, almost nobody ever talks about the original BSG anymore, unless it's couched in complaints about TNS, or because someone has besmirched our memories of a show we love in a recent interview. When Ion TV ran TOS in it's entirety, almost no one here or at CF bothered to talk about it - that was one of the biggest disappointments for me, much more disappointing than thinking that TNS is the forefront of BSG as a television show.

I moderate at 2 Trek boards - both are Trek boards that are centered around online Trek series that have been going on for years. Even though Trek is pretty much dead as a TV series and possibly a franchise, those fans pooled their efforts and remade Trek into something they could enjoy and talk about. Instead of waiting for someone else to do it for them, or complain how someone else is doing it, they just went off and did it themselves and formed a new niche in the Trek genre.

I look back at the "14th Colony" trailer and how it made me feel when I first saw it, but how long ago was that? I sporadically hear about how it's coming along and how people are reviewing the script, but other than the original trailer and some behind the scenes pics, where is something concrete? I know that I didn't have anything to do with that, but how long can you wait?

I love that Tom DeSanto would really love to do something with the original Galactica "someday", but I really can't keep hoping for something that may never come. I don't mean that I won't support it when it comes along and that I won't see it when it's releases, but for now, I have to live in reality.

If seeing TOS Raiders, TOS-ish costumes and TOS Cylons in a grand total of 8 minutes of footage over 4 weeks gives me a small bit of pleasure each week, then don't begrudge me that small pleasure and don't judge me for liking it or not. I don't judge you that harshly - I could, but that's not what friends do to each other.

I'm your friend and I care about you and what you think, but you shouldn't impose your ideals on other people because you don't share them.

Best always,
Bryan

[Martok2112]

This however was not quite what I assumed it would look like -

I think we can both agree on that.

If it was me making a TOS product I'd have funky graphics and all that felgercarb on it – a bit like Terminator-vision.

I was thinking the exact same thing, Peter. That's why I felt the Cyl-O-Vision seemed a little primitive. :)

It should've had targetting data, form-scan(warm-scan?) information, etc.

Maybe THIS is why the toasters couldn't hit the broad side of a barn? ;) (Cheap assed reptiles. :D )

Steve

[Martok2112]

Hi, Pete.

Obviously you know my feelings about the new Battlestar Galactica, so I'm not gonna repeat them here.

I also don't want to come down on you for your feelings, because I know them almost chapter and verse.

If I may say, this burst of frustration you've had is similar to bursts of frustration I've had in the past at CF....and I think it largely came from a misunderstanding on my part about the motives of other parties. (Voice of Darth Vader: Search your feelings, and you'll know this to be true!) :twisted:

Sometimes, it's out of a matter of principle that we hate things....other times, it's simply a matter of taste....or even a combination of both. But, I think it can be agreed that even in the things we don't like, sometimes we can find something salvageable or redeemable.

Let's take music, for example: I hate Nirvana. Never have liked them. Never will. That style of music grates my very soul. Admittedly, I end up having to sing that song on Bourbon St....and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" (as much as I generally don't like the song) is actually pretty fun to sing. (And as it turns out, I am one of probably only two people on Bourbon who can actually do the song justice...not bragging,...just facts.) Like I said, admittedly, it's a fun song to sing, because sometimes, with the other frustrations I put up with, it's a good release. Still don't particularly care for the song itself, because to me, it represents the bastardization of the rock and roll I knew and loved....where one actually had to have talent. In fact, I would have to say, I considered Kurt Cobain to be as much a talentless hack as you might consider Ron Moore.

However, out of the stinking, fetid corpse that was Nirvana, came Foo Fighters. I actually like that band. It's still a part of Nirvana, but it's like Nirvana with actual talent. The vocal melodies are much more satisfying, and the music is better. Not that I would listen to them on a regular, voluntary basis, but given a choice between them and Nirvana, I'll take Foo Fighters any day of the week.

Without meaning to speak for the others on this board who may have found some small enjoyment out of the previous webisodes featuring original series Raiders and Centurions, but I would think that their enjoyment, or at least appreciation of these elements is about the same sentiment as what I described above when it comes to music.

The webisodes have their curiosity at best. They've tuned in to watch, and actually found something they could appreciate, even though it rises from what they consider to be a stinking, fetid corpse of a show. It's also not something, I'm sure, that they'd watch on a regular, voluntary basis. I mean, they've seen the webisodes. I doubt that many of them will tune in, log on, or surf the web to watch them again. Should they encounter the webisodes again in some broadcast, they MIGHT watch it again. MIGHT not be utterly compelled to turn it off. Doesn't mean that they're gonna rush out to buy the RAZOR DVD. It also doesn't mean that they're offering support for what you call GINO. It just means that they've found something appreciable out of what they despise. Sandy has simply found a lot more that he appreciated about the new show....but it still does nof make him a full on supporter of the show. :)

Same thing with me and Foo Fighters. If I am listening to the radio, I won't voluntarily seek them out on a station. But if I happen to hear them, I won't exactly tune them out either. But it also doesn't mean that I'll rush to the store to pick up their catalog of CD's.

I hope this made some sense to you, my friend.

Always respectfully,
Steve :)

[Sept17th1978eightPM]

Some quick shots ‘cause I have a busy morning with a film production meeting and getting Casa Rogers ready for the big Halloween bash.

Unfortunately GINO is a chapter in the history of the Battlestar franchise just as Galactica1980 is. Frankly this conversation is one of the more interesting ones during the last four years.

Totally alone in a fantasy world where GINO doesn’t exist these websodes are pretty cool, minus the overtly sexy opening, Mother Fracker, and bad CGI. Look at Peter’s avatar…man in suit looks better, the CGI version has better more mechanical looking limbs I really like the knees. I agree more of a Terminator look for the Cylon display would have been better.

In short though these clips are GINO in the end they’re part of a production unworthy of the name. Even my wife who does not take part of the discussion recognizes a last gasp of desperation in these clips.

[Langolas]

This however was not quite what I assumed it would look like -

I think we can both agree on that.

If it was me making a TOS product I'd have funky graphics and all that felgercarb on it – a bit like Terminator-vision.

I agree - a grid with a map of the area - position of the Centurion in relation to the rest of the squad - possible targets - orders, etc. Ahh well.

[Martok2112]

You're talking about a culture that airs daily TV shows chronicling the the undergarments of Britney Spears.

Hell, why do you think GINO is such a "big hit?"

I must've missed those episodes. ;)

I thought the CG work in this one was a lot better than the stuff from the space battle. What makes this look like a video game is the lack of a true reflective surface on the centurion. Had that been added, with proper ambient lighting (I won't bore you with the details), this would have blown everyone's socks off.

Yet, I understand why that didn't happen. These guys had to crank this stuff out fast and doing it with HDRI and proper reflect settings would have literally changed each render from from something like 40 seconds (which is what I predict something like this took) to 24-40 minutes.

In my opinion, the rest of the elements in the sequence are pretty good. I think the camerawork in this is far, far superior to the space battle sequence. In fact, I noted in the previous webisode that the camerawork took a sudden improvement as soon as the action moved into the atmosphere.

Thanks for the response, Sandy!

Playing with a little 3d modelling and rendering over the years, myself, I know exactly what you are refering to. Adding a little light here, a little anti-aliasing there, and you have yourself a loongg render time, especially when you are talking reflective surfaces. But with that said, I don't think that that is an acceptable excuse for a professional group these days. The level of quality in CG that has been present for years now was not present in that ep. And as professionals, I think it should have been better.

You are probably 100% right that it was time restraints forcing their hand, but then you have to accept the critique that comes with that. There were times when I half-fastly finished a project for school and got thumped during crits for my efforts. This isn't much different, except that this is done for a professional level work which they are getting paid for and not just a small class with no pay involved.

I agree that the lack of proper reflections is a key reason why the TOS Cylon looks off. But, while I agree that the camera work was pretty good in the air, the beating up of the Centurian on the ground, was again VERY cartoonish in both rendering and animation. It just didn't work for me.


As for the story on this so far being "so bad", ... I homestly don't get why these webisodes are garnering such an outlash on the content level. I concur on the concept of wondering why Ron and Dave suddenly think the original series is something to embrace after spitting on it the entire time. I share those thoughts. However, on content alone, I've been pleasantly surprised by these webisodes. The story to me is "Guy gets in Viper, gets shot down, fights with centurion during freefall, ... to be continued".

Its not the Ten Commandments but it isn't bad either. If the rest of GINO never existed and this was the only thing that we'd seen since G1980, I don't think many would have been disappointed with it. (I'd still ask why they picked such an ugly design for the Battlestar ... sorry, Peter but I still hate that ribbed thing).

Well, I think you will find that I was one of the few that defended the first three webisodes as being acceptable, so I am not sure who you are refering to in this case. With that said, this latest installment, story/scenewise was just bad! It rivals the Katie being shot down ep, which I know you enjoyed.

But my problem with the Katie being shot down ep and this particular ep is very similar. It's not that the concept isn't any good. It's just that the execution is bad. Once again, wayyy to many coincidences had to take place for the scene to develop and take place. And while I don't mind some coincidences, this went beyond that limit for me.

It's just bad story telling and a lack of true originality.



Malkyte

[Bishop37]

Nah, it's just not working.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/3650/ginocylonnk5.jpg

[Gemini1999]

Nah, it's just not working.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/3650/ginocylonnk5.jpg

Peter -

Where did you get those from?

Bryan

[Eugenia]

It's just something to talk about....face it, almost nobody ever talks about the original BSG anymore, unless it's couched in complaints about GINO, or because someone has besmirched our memories of a show we love in a recent interview. When Ion TV ran TOS in it's entirety, almost no one here or at CF bothered to talk about it - that was one of the biggest disappointments for me, much more disappointing than thinking that GINO is the forefront of BSG as a television show.

TOS got talked about quite a bit during the ION airing on an e-mail TOS fanfiction list that I belong to. They've been writing a "virtual season" continuation for the last 4 or 5 years now as well as a number of other continuations by individual writers which are quite well thought out, in character with TOS, well written, and sometimes downright ingenious. (And then there are days when the fleet suffers from "cabin fever" and strange things happen similar to a gag reel or outtakes.)

[Darth Marley]

SFX chief Gary Hutzel Interview (http://www.galactica.tv/battlestar-galactica-2003---interviews/gary-hutzel-galactica.tv-interview.html)

There are some pictures comparing the old and new-old Cylon designs.

[Gemini1999]

SFX chief Gary Hutzel Interview (http://www.galactica.tv/battlestar-galactica-2003---interviews/gary-hutzel-galactica.tv-interview.html)

There are some pictures comparing the old and new-old Cylon designs.

Marley -

Thanks for pointing out that interview. It puts things in a nice perspective.

Bryan

[Commander Taggart]

I went to that site.

I need a shower.

[Gemini1999]

I went to that site.

I need a shower.

Bill -

Maybe this part of the site would be more to your liking...

http://www.galactica.tv/component/option,com_magazine/func,show_magazine/id,2/Itemid,82/

Bryan

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I went to that site.

I need a shower.

Bill -

Maybe this part of the site would be more to your liking...

http://www.galactica.tv/component/option,com_magazine/func,show_magazine/id,2/Itemid,82/

Bryan

That site is the creation of my old friend Marcel, who introduced himself to me by sending long hate mails demanding I stop being critical of GINO on Colonial Fleets because the people who really belonged on that board didn't want to hear my opinion.

Never had any interest in that place since then.

That's an example of Steve's hating a place just out of principle.


Sandy

[Gemini1999]

I went to that site.

I need a shower.

Bill -

Maybe this part of the site would be more to your liking...

http://www.galactica.tv/component/option,com_magazine/func,show_magazine/id,2/Itemid,82/

Bryan

That site is the creation of my old friend Marcel, who introduced himself to me by sending long hate mails demanding I stop being critical of GINO on Colonial Fleets because the people who really belonged on that board didn't want to hear my opinion.

Never had any interest in that place since then.

That's an example of Steve's hating a place just out of principle.

Sandy -

Message received and understood. I didn't know the history behind the site, but I respect your opinions.

Bryan

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Michael Rymer as the director this would be great if we used the original series ships to encourage fans to check out the show.

... and there it is. The elusive answer finally revealed. Razor is intended to get the fanbase they dumped to wipe spit off their face and try to salvage their remaining ratings.

In other words, what was once unworthy is indeed seen as worthy again, but only after they've lost the audience they preferred.

Well, Ron did tell me that he didn't regret losing the old fans but might consider how we feel if the ratings fell low enough. Guess he was true to his word. I was surprised when he so openly made that declaration to me and honestly, am surprised he's seemingly followed through with it.


Sandy

[TwoBrainedCylon]

But with that said, I don't think that that is an acceptable excuse for a professional group these days. The level of quality in CG that has been present for years now was not present in that ep. And as professionals, I think it should have been better.

You are probably 100% right that it was time restraints forcing their hand, but then you have to accept the critique that comes with that. There were times when I half-fastly finished a project for school and got thumped during crits for my efforts. This isn't much different, except that this is done for a professional level work which they are getting paid for and not just a small class with no pay involved.

Admittedly I now realize part of this was just my perception and I largely don't really know, but from what I'm gathering, the opted to cut these sequences entirely. Somebody looked at a couple or four guys who weren't the A-list team and likely said "See if you can make these into some websidoes but don't get in the way of the real production". With those words (or something similar I'm sure) these guys went to work.

If its anything like other projects of this kind that I've seen, these 2-4 guys likely worked their ass off to put this together, including sleeping under the desks and waking up every couple hours to check renders and reset things. (No, I'm not kidding in that). They probably had bloodshot eyes, about 22 machines rendering, while they scrambled to get scenes set up and apologized to wives and girlfriends and swore that NEXT WEEK would be the week they'd finally break away and have a nice evening with them.

The reflect setting and shaders would have meant the difference between this thing not getting accomplished at all and being seen, so they dropped them. I have no doubt every one of them would have much rather had the realistic looking chrome.

As I said, that's a guess but it seems right from the other things I know about how Razor came about.

Likely, given the big mismatch between the space battle and the freefall, this was keyed up as a rough and the space battle was crammed in via the webisode concept. I see a big difference in how the two unfold.

One of my complaints about GINO CG since day 1 is that the VFX camerawork usually sucks donkey penis. (I can't say that on Skiffy anymore -- TA turned me in). Easily 50% of the CG shots are just horrid in their camerawork. Despite that S3 has had some outstanding stuff but this webisode had solid camerawork throughout. The angles on the centurion were especailly effective (as shown by Peter's stillframes). The atmospheric combat was superior to most everything I've seen in GINO.

If you look at the spinning viper you'll note the same lack of finish on the hull of the Mark II Viper that you have lacking on the centurion. That's part of what led me to believe that these guys were given the order to do it quick and stay out of everyone's way. They have the Mark II pretty well rigged for shots but for some reason, this one also lacks the shaders so I'm guessing part of their orders were "Shader's off and don't bother the guys who are working on the real show".


Sandy

[Darth Marley]

Having seen Razor, I don't really think it can be considered an effort to hook in original series fans.

The story just doesn't support any incidence of original series ships going forward.

There are a few scenes with the old Cylons, and the old Raiders, but is isn't a dominant theme. They are either in a flashback, or an old outpost.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I've no doubt that Razor never intended to have a lot of original series stuff.

I also find it totally beleiveable that Ron, Dave, and several of the production staff thought they'd throw out a few original series icons and the morons who rejected them will all come running and join the team.

Its not an issue of whether they really wanted to do a good production of original series stuff. Its an issue of how little regard they've always had for this side of the fanbase.


Sandy

[Eugenia]

Having seen Razor, I don't really think it can be considered an effort to hook in original series fans.

The story just doesn't support any incidence of original series ships going forward.

There are a few scenes with the old Cylons, and the old Raiders, but is isn't a dominant theme. They are either in a flashback, or an old outpost.

It looks like the old school Cylons are just going to make a token appearance or two. They don't really fit into the GINO settings or "re-imagined" storyline.

My guess is either the CGI guys, who like the original designs, snuck them in or the legal department persuaded Moore & Co to include them to protect their copyright. Since it's the last season, Moore & Co are probably more concerned with their next job anyway.



http://www.galactica.tv/battlestar-galactica-2003---interviews/gary-hutzel-galactica.tv-interview.html

It's something we've talked about with the writers. They haven't had a chance to see that this design is really effective because it takes so long to complete the effects shots. At this point, every script is already written up to episode 13. The last half of the season is jam-packed for the storytelling, so my guess is that we're not going to see more of the original Centurions.

[Bishop37]

I didn't get the pic from Marcel the Cunt's site.

I got it from VFX World where you need to be a member to view the articles.


Battlestar Galactica Season Four: A VFX Sneak Peek
Tara DiLullo Bennett chats with VFX Supervisor Gary Hutzel about the fourth and final season of Battlestar Galactica and the challenges and opportunities of doing the vfx in-house.

Space is still looking grim for the rag-tag colony of humans running for their lives from the robotic Cylons on SCI FI Channel's series, Battlestar Galactica. After three seasons of intricate political machinations, subterfuge from the Cylons, more religious and moral quandaries than you can shake a stick at, and winning a Peabody Award, BSG is winding down for its fourth and final season set to start in April 2008. Gary Hutzel, the visual effects supervisor for the entire run of the series and the new TV movie, Battlestar Galactica: Razor, has been responsible for bringing this new breed of sci-fi drama to the screen. In our third chat with Hutzel in as many years, he tells VFXWorld the changes that have happened in the BSG vfx pipeline and his plans to for this last season to raise their already remarkably high visual effects bar one more notch.

With BSG always embracing change as a motivator for story and plot arcs, Hutzel details that season four follows suit. "This year we are brightening it up a little bit. The tone is a little bit harsher, with faster cuts and more violent action. I think that's fine for this season because the storyline lends itself to that and the writers are embracing that approach. The visual effects are being used a little bit more for structure. The writers are saying: 'We need an exciting little bit. What should we do?'"

Hutzel also explains that all of the visual effects are being done in-house now, which opens up the process for creativity and experimenting. "It's exciting for us because we don't have the tether of having to deal with it being too expensive. We can move in and elbow the live-action a little bit, to open up a sequence. It's a balance. [Exec Producer] Ron Moore and I have talked a lot about this and he's expressed his concern about traveling too far away from (season) three, as far as visual effects are concerned. We are working together to make sure that he stays in a comfortable place and the show doesn't get too flashy. There are sequences where it's handy to have vfx open it up, but there are other scenes where Ron knows we must remain understated. We are staying in touch making sure that I don't take sequences so far, but at the same time he is more than happy to see more smash and bash," Hutzel laughs.

Already into post-production for the first few episodes of the season, Hutzel reveals some tidbits about the focus of their work so far. "We know there is going to be a lot more Centurion work this year, including Centurion/human bonding. Right now, we are redeveloping the Centurion to make him more human scale and interactive. It was originally designed to be a highly stylistic robot, not functional. As it was originally designed, it was never meant to play a larger role in the show. In the fourth season, it will be playing a larger role. We will be working on that with Ron, and how much he will let us get away with," he chuckles. "In using the original series, the Centurion was a human scale robot that elicits a lot of different emotions than our Centurion. It has a human-like head and shoulders. Our Centurion is more stylized and you can do a lot more with expression with the original. I'd like to make more functional hands, because our fingers are so long and sharp, it's not functional. He's just there to kill people.

"The rest of the season they are keeping very, very quiet," Hutzel cautions. "We have been warned there will be a full-on conflict at the end of the season. We've been told to hang onto your dollars because all hell is going to break loose. Again, working in-house we have control and we know what our expenditures are going to be. It's just a matter of management. I'm looking forward to keeping everything in-house because it's much more dynamic. We can sit with everyone in a circle for ideas and then work with editorial and the writers. We are all on the same lot now. The secret to getting things done is getting a consensus and moving forward."

For all the demanding hours and sleepless nights over the past four years, Hutzel is still very sad that this will be BSG's final season. "Opportunities don't come along like this too often. It's a collection of Hollywood professionals who really knew what they wanted from the beginning and got it. This is the only show I've ever known where the pilot was born fully- grown. The characters were filled out and going right into the series, everybody was at 100% and I've never seen that. Everybody knows that they are working for a very good reason. When they see it on the air, it's worth it. Hopefully, I'll have another opportunity to do another show like this. Ron will continue to develop new shows with Universal and I hope I stay with him. The writing is key and we don't break the rules for convenience, which happens way too much and on every sci-fi show and that's not what happens here. They make it different. The writers spend time with the scripts."

Detailing their workflow, Hutzel explains, "With Galactica, no amount of planning ever prepares you for a BSG season. We are working on a batch of shows simultaneously. Production went on hiatus for six weeks. During that period, they laid off part of the editorial staff while we were still delivering Razor. Now we have a whole batch of episodes. 401 and 402 are Razor, so for us 403 is the first show of the season. We are doing previs for episode six, rendering three and four. This year we went into this doing a 20-episode season and Razor (airing Nov. 24). So we are prepared to have the first eight shows by mid-December. We feel good about that and we'll see how SCI FI schedules it. Unlike years gone by, we're not into the vfx death march, which is a new show every week. And particularly when you are supposed to develop the last two episodes, which are supposed to be gigantic, never before seen effects and also deliver fast, fast, fast, that's extremely hard. We're going into this season with more time. Ron has something spectacular planned but we have no ideas. I'm sure there will be panic," Hutzel laughs.

[Dawg]

Pick apart the webisodes all you like, the thing is still GINO. Yes, I watched the last one to see the TOS designs, but I really think Sandy hit it on the head, because I was not impressed with the Centurion and I wasn't impressed with the CGI in general - they look almost amateurish (OK, so the amateurs I know are pretty much professional-grade), but certainly unfinished. And I certainly wasn't impressed with how Young Bill dispatched it and got himself blood-spattered in the process - it speaks strongly that these are not the Cylon Centurions of TOS, except in image.

I am certainly not impressed with the EJO-as-Old-Bill impression that the actor playing Young Bill is trying to do.

I have no desire to see more, or even discuss it further.

I am
Dawg

[JJRAKMAN]

Sorry, time for my irrellevant interjection, and feel free to ignore this rant.

Frankly I share some of the frustration of Tossers, and my buddy BST. (as if this couldn't be predicted). :wink:

After reading the initial screenplay for the undoudtedly shitty mini, and after all the wailing and complaining from all of us, I have to say, it does confuse me why people who expressed these sentiments are now willing to contribute to the rating scores of a show that has proven itself to be complete crap on every level, as is evidenced by its content.

Some of the same folks who rightly voiced ourtrage over the obvious crappy nature of RDM's writings, are now watching this garbage week in and week out, only contributing to its miniscule ratings success. For what?

Thanks guys, by tuning in and talking about this trash you've only helped it continue.

These people insulted us, used the show not only to piss on the original show we like, but also piss on some of the political views we hold dear, not to mention to piss on us personally, and yet there's still people who sit down and watch this idiotic tripe faithfully week after week. Huh?

Why? For some obscure hope that one of our CGI buddies might be able to underhandedly slip a TOS Cylon or Raider through the cracks here and there?

I can only liken it to conservative fascists who faithfully listened to Howard Stern daily for the sole purpose of seeking to find something to be offended by. They of course, only helped to establish his career, improve his ratings, and increase his income. They had no other effect.

If you like it, great. It's your funeral, and it's not my job or my place to tell you what to like. Nor should it be.

But if you don't like it, then why for the love of God are you bothering with this tripe?

Great, so they have 7 minutes of a TOS Cylon. So what?

As someone else once said, TOS will always be there. Nothing can take it away. So if I want to see a TOS Cylon, I shall watch TOS.

Certainly, nothing that claims to exist in any fictional universe that MooreRon (and yes, this is the absolute correct name for the inverse intellectual who has no business writing English literature regardless of what anyone says) has any hand in, deserves my attention and/or respect. Regardless of whatever talented CGI artist has worked on RDM's misguided disaster, it holds no interest for me, nor should it, no matter how many CGI TOS Cylons are prostitutely employed in this unfortunate endeavor.

Poop is poop. You can try to Flitz a turd all you like, but at the end of the day, and after 20 hours of elbow grease, it will still remain a turd.

The insults levied against this fanbase by the cast and crew of this unprecidented shitty garbage masquerading as art makes it absolutely impossilbe for me to enjoy anything from it, or to even bother trying to view anything from it, no matter how much they try to stroke the TOS fanbase now.

Anything regurgitated from this production crew under the house of GINO deserves only to be ignored and forgotten. Nothing more. Anyone who says otherwise, is mistaken. For a while, I even tried to post daily sci fi news just to get people to talk about anything other than GINO, but it didn't work.

Frankly I find the fact that serious discussion of this show after the end of its second season taking place to be disgusting.

A while back, I remember being a bit more vociferous against RDM and the rest of the GINO crew, and some wishing I weren't because they were afraid I might scare away a "Hollywood Writer" from talking to us. I held back a bit for those folks, and I wish I hadn't. Because frankly I have zero respect for a writer simply because he's from Hollywood, and nobody else should either. Scaring this "Hollywood Writer" away could have been the best favor I could have done for this or any other fanbase.

Both he, and his wife, should go fuck themselves. And no, I'm not a keyboard hero, I would gladly take the wonderful opportunity to say this directly to his smug sweater vest dork face.

THis garbage is too little, too late. And I am thankfully immune to RDM's and Eick's desperate TOS ego stroking at their 11th hour.

Maybe some aren't.

I'm sorry, I just had to belt this out.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

JJ,

Let me be equally direct.

You and BST are badly mischaracterizing the folks who liked this small tidbit in the GINO universe.

Your premise is based on some bad assumptions.

You seem to think that we matter. We don't. We never did to these people. If everyone at CA and CF tuned in to watch GINO we would have zero practical impact on the ratings of this series. If we all never watched an episode, we'd also have no impact whatsoever. Likewise, nobody on the boards is going to sway enough opinions by any of their conversations to matter in the smallest. Our influcence isn't extremely limited -- its nill.

So, your ratings complaint is completely null and void IMO. I may just now be contributing to the ratings through my DVR recordings but I'm under the impression that I'm not. If I am, I'll not watch GINO in that fashion.

On a larger scale, you and BST have now taken up the stance of declaring what other members should or should not like. I consider myself to be a pretty hard-core fan of Battlestar Galactica and think I've been one of the most outspoken folks against GINO. I feel all the same emotions about how the franchise has been abused and how Ron and Dave have given us the finger time and again. What you are doing IMO is claiming an exclusive right to declare how folks react to these sorts of emotional harms. My reaction has never been to blindly denounce everything I see.

Yes, I watch GINO. No, I don't watch it as a fan. Its a train-wreck viewership, I admit. I don't change my plans to see the thing. I catch it when I've got an hour. Certanily, that hour could be better spent but the same can be said for any television series. Yet, even from this stance, some elements have turned out to be pretty damn good ... not many, but there are a few and I'd be a dishonest person to pretend like there weren't.

I'd have liked these webisodes if they were standalone productions. If the universe were different and these were the sneak peak of what DeSanto was going to do and we saw these in 2002, I doubt my reactions would be much different. I'd still think the CG had problems but was well done considering the likely constraints and I'd still think the sequence was cool. I can't in good conscience suddenly decide I despise it because its linked with GINO. I haven't done that with the renders of the original series ships and I won't do it with this.

Do I wish these elements were separated from GINO. Certainly. GINO is still the baby murder, mastrubation, anti-American garbage show in my eyes. It founded itself as a cheap, junior high school-level sexfest pretending to be an important social commentary and has never been anything else. My liking these webisode tidbits doesn't change any of that.

Foremost, I'd like to know why you or BST feel any "frustration" at my enjoying these 8 minutes of Internet content. I'd really like a straight answer to this because for me, this is the opposite of the GINO sycophants screaming outrage because I don't like their series. How is anyone affected by my gaining some enjoyment from these? How is anyone affected by my stating that I liked them?

I think I deserve a straight answer to this from the folks who are "frustrated" since I and a couple of others have effectively been given the slap down for simply saying "I liked that".


Sandy

[Merlin]

Looked to me like they were trying to take a scene from one of the Mission Impossible Movie's ....

My opinion .... It looked pretty stupid !!!!

[Gemini1999]

JJ,

Let me be equally direct.

You and BST are badly mischaracterizing the folks who liked this small tidbit in the GINO universe.

Sandy -

Thanks for that, I really just don't have the strength or desire to contribute in a rivarly that's been going on for four years now. For that matter, I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks of what I like and what I don't.

I do have one thing to say though - remember when we could tell the difference between a TOS fan and a TNS fan? Oh, come on... Because TOS fans supposedly only attacked TNS, not the fans themselves. Whatever happened to that, eh? I guess all those years of railing against the wind isn't as much fun unless you have someone to focus it on...

I'm done with it. Not with BSG, not with the sites I hang out on. I'm just done with the constant and unrelenting squabbling about the same thing that people have been on about for the past 4 years and probably a couple more years to come.

If nothing else, I decide what I like, what I don't and the only person that it matters to is me. Nobody can take that away or attempt to intimidate me enough to change that fact.

If you don't like what I like, blow me - and that's not an invitation.

Bryan

[Merlin]

"Gentlemen, they'll be no fighting in the war room" .. Dr Strangelove


GUYS !!!!!! This thing, discussion's / debates ... Talking Sci-fi .. is Fun !!!

Differences and opinions should be encouraged ... Gemini 1999, If you like Gino ... stick to your guns man !!!!!

Offer your opinions !!!

TwoBrainedCylon .. Same thing ... except ...the part about liking Gino ...


There are a lot of opinions I have... that other people don't agree with ... It's fun to debate them !!!!

My list of what I think are unpopular opinions !!!

Star Trek the Wrath of Kahn... SUCKED !!!
Star Trek the Motion Picture was GOOD.. all the other Star Trek movie's Sucked !!!
Star Wars film's, other than, Star Wars and The Empiire Strikes Back.. the rest all Sucked... George Lucas turned them into frieken .. Muppet Movies !!!! And turned one of the greatest character's Darth Vader into a wining pussy !!!!
I have no problem with Re-imagining Battlestar Galactica ( I just don't like how Gino did it)
Battlestar Galactica wasn't perfect... I love it .. but it's not perfect !!!

So anyone with different opinions ... Load your guns and fire away... at me ...

It should be fun !!!! this site should be fun !!!

[Martok2112]

GUYS !!!!!! This thing, discussion's / debates ... Talking Sci-fi .. is Fun !!!

Differences and opinions should be encouraged ... Gemini 1999, If you like Gino ... stick to your guns man !!!!!

Offer your opinions !!!

TwoBrainedCylon .. Same thing ... except ...the part about liking Gino ...


There are a lot of opinions I have... that other people don't agree with ... It's fun to debate them !!!!

My list of what I think are unpopular opinions !!!

Star Trek the Wrath of Kahn... SUCKED !!!
Star Trek the Motion Picture was GOOD.. all the other Star Trek movie's Sucked !!!
Star Wars film's, other than, Star Wars and The Empiire Strikes Back.. the rest all Sucked... George Lucas turned them into frieken .. Muppet Movies !!!! And turned one of the greatest character's Darth Vader into a wining pussy !!!!
I have no problem with Re-imagining Battlestar Galactica ( I just don't like how Gino did it)
Battlestar Galactica wasn't perfect... I love it .. but it's not perfect !!!

So anyone with different opinions ... Load your guns and fire away... at me ...

It should be fun !!!! this site should be fun !!!

I knew there was a reason I liked you, Merlin. :D

[dilbertman]

Gotta love it.


Was there a lot of research required to model the old ships?

It was actually fairly simple, there's tons and tons of reference material out there. The Centurions were completely redesigned. We had a ground soldier and a pilot. The ground soldier was stockier and had a lot more ammo and the pilots were lighter weight with more chrome and reflectivity.

Sounds like another idea of Mr DeSanto.


How would you compare the Cylons in the re-imagined show to the original?

The lore of this show is different. Our story is simply that the Cylons were created by us as machines of war and they turned against us. Eventually we had a war with them and then we had a truce for 40 years. They spent that time only to build up their battle capability to destroy, as part of their original programming. In the original series, lizard people built the Cylons to come and kill the humans.

In effect, we've gone more retro. We've gone back to an earlier time where computers are not networked, we use antiquated technology. You can't really say that the original storyline blends with our show but we have stolen some of their best elements. The original Centurions were powerful and intense and not as much the brute force of our re-imagined ones.

Jim :roll:

[JSC1]

Okay, my two cents.

I don't watch GINO, haven't since '33'. I will admit that I have checked out the webisodes though when they are posted here. Mostly because the views on those have been for the most part positive, despite them being part of a production I do not care for.

I tried to watch the latest yesterday, but the sound cut out. A sign from God maybe (or just a technical issue) I don't know. But I'm not going to go out of my way to watch it again.

That being said I only watched the webisodes out of curiosity. By no means does this say that I want to watch Razor or have turned into a GINO fan. I have not forgotten how fans were rallied together only to be screwed over in the end by two shameless self promoters using the name 'Battlestar Galactica' to promote their own careers.

I have not forgotten the insults, some of which continue to this day by certain publications and individuals. We know who they are.

I have not forgotten any of it. And by no means do I excuse any of it.

I like to think we DO matter. And by all rights we SHOULD matter, as people if nothing else. But Ron Moore, David Eick and Hollywood have made it clear that the only ones they want are the ones that agree with them. And right now they are in the minority, but some of that minority are in the key positions of power and influence. If you don't agree with them then you are devalued as a person.

And as for the webisodes. I think they are just a set up for a train wreck to come. Just because these are good to most of us, or touch a feeling of nostaligia in us, doesn't mean Razor will.

It's like the Cylon attack that was in the G-1980 ads back in the day. We thought that was the big thing, only to find it was a computer simulation and the show more or less had a car chase through LA, warriors with a dissapear, time travel and a kid genius that made Adama look like a fuddy duddy. Big set up to a poor delivery. The GINO mini was much the same way-just executed worse.

I believe that these minisodes are just a bribe to get us to watch 'Razor' and for Ron to get high ratings he won't deserve, and then go to the higher ups and say 'Hey I got high ratings. I'm ready to do Caprica now'.

Why fall for the same trick twice?

If this is an attempt to get me to watch Razor, then my answer is 'Thanks but no thanks'. I may watch the webisodes if they peak my curiosity, but nothing beyond that.

For me the old show was to have been respected from the get go, as well as the fans. We should NEVER have been told to 'deal with it'. We should NEVER have been told how 'small and insignificant' we are (incidently I don't agree with that and never will). And what we wanted should NEVER have been thrown in the trash pile.

The 11th hour is too little too late. We, and what we wanted, should have been respected and honored from day one. End of story.

[Bishop37]

I like to think we DO matter. And by all rights we SHOULD matter, as people if nothing else. But Ron Moore, David Eick and Hollywood have made it clear that the only ones they want are the ones that agree with them.

Judging by some of the decisions made by Skiffy lately, I don't think GINO's own fans matter.

Seasons and boxed sets being delayed and other territories getting basic packages smacks of consumer neglect IMO.

Whether there's any reaction to this action remains to be seen.

[BST]

Ok, let's get a few things straight.

If you want to watch the webisodes, FINE.
If you want to watch Razor, FINE.

If you want to watch the remaining 20 episodes, FINE.

I could give a flying rat's ass and I'm not trying to dictate anyone's viewing tastes at all.

That having been said, I'd like to know where the ability to express frustration on this board has suddenly been outlawed simply because the remarks might have hit too close to home.

I've sat and watched the goings-on of the last 4-5 years since this piece of shit hit the airwaves and I've read and generally agreed with most of what I've seen written about this show. That was perfectly acceptable by the masses ... because I AGREED with what was said. Apparently the understanding that I'm getting now is "Woe to me if I disagree."

Well, sorry. I'm not going to bite my tongue. I'm not going to hold back my ill regard for this show. If I'm friends with you (those who posted in response to me) then, it will be up to you to decide if we remain friends. I consider nothing changed since that moment prior to my posting of that remark and at that time, I considered us friends.

I guess when it really comes down to it, I can find absolutely NO GOOD out of this show. Not one single fucking thing. This show's producers and staff pissed all over me and everyone else who preferred TOS which can be defined as those who didn't want to see Moore's show at all.

I cannot suddenly sit back and say "Oh goody, they threw me a bone. Let me run around in a circle and chase my tail" or "Oh hurray, they showed me a shiny chrome Cylon who has a gun who shoots bullets.... I'm so happy that I waited 4 years to see this. It makes the episode about rape and the one about terrorists, and all the other political messages worth tolerating." No, just like not being able to change spots on a leopard, you can't change my opinion of the show or anyone involved with it.


Bryan, you mentioned about no one talking about TOS. That's true, to an extent. The shows are about 30 years old...just about every possible angle has been explored and debated. There's very little left to discuss. But, there is a whole lot of life in the TOS universe that did please me. One item was Sandy's Exodus series. I loved those audio stories, would love to hear more and would willing pay good money to purchase "episodes" with stories in that universe. That was quality, in terms of storytelling and production. Sandy, I hope you realize that I'm not blowing smoke up your ass with that...I don't "patronize". I say what I think....albeit sometimes with a bit more diplomacy than others. It was very well done and you should be very proud of it. Another item is the 14th Colony project. That has the makings of being one hell of a story....when produced, I honestly think that most, if not all will be pleased with the effort.

My whole point with all this was multi-faceted....one was to vent frustration. Another was to simply ask the question of how much longer are we going to give any more of our time toward this show? In my single, solitary opinion, this show is not worth the time that we have spent discussing it, since it came out. I know that will be something unfortunate for some to hear and I am truly sorry because I don't want to be hurtful. For me, it's much like talking about how much you like Hillary Clinton, at a staff meeting of the Republican National Committee.

Finally, JJ, thanks for your understanding. I appreciated your words very much.

:)

Pete

[Bishop37]

That having been said, I'd like to know where the ability to express frustration on this board has suddenly been outlawed simply because the remarks might have hit too close to home.

Sorry, but this is a crock of shit.

Last time I looked CA was the same as it always was, if someone's making up alternate guidelines besides the FF, please point them out because they're not empowered to do so.

Saying that though, sometimes I could be mistaken that I'm visiting Politics-R-Us, Microshit-Is-Us or Curry's (UK electrical outfit). ;)

Vent on!

[Alternity Orange]

That having been said, I'd like to know where the ability to express frustration on this board has suddenly been outlawed simply because the remarks might have hit too close to home.

I certainly hope you were trying to be funny with that Pete since our credo is as it's always been; you can say whatever the fuck you want to here, just don't think you won't be called on it.

If people want to express their desire to live inside of RDM's rectum, as they do daily on the skiffy board, they are more than welcome to do so. Unlike the skiffy board however, they can not go crying to the mods if someone questions them, or expect censorship of any opposing view.

This topic/argument pops up about twice a year. The other owners are sitting it out so I will bite the bullet and paint a target on my chest this time.

It's funny because I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with everyone posting in this thread. In the grand scheme, of course we have no meaning. Our ratings do not matter. But at the same time, despite telling us over and over again how insignificant we were, Ron, Terry, and skiffy still read every single word we say here.

When I coined the GINO acronym, there was no ulterior motive. I needed a short descriptive name to use to discuss the piece of shit currently airing with the name "Battlestar Galactica" and therefore came up with one. That was the entire point of the acronym. It caught on so widely, so fast (and that was a surprise to me as well) because it was so accurate. Ron was so unnerved he had to work it into his scripts (and I'm still waiting for those residual checks Ron.) So yeah, obviously we have an effect.

People can watch whatever they want obviously. I couldn't care less who watches GINO whether they be fans of the real BSG or not. It only bothers me when they try to justify their viewing. Obviously everyone who watches it enjoys something about it, there is no other reason to watch it.

Back in 2003, Ron thought everyone would watch whatever crap he jerked off just because it was called "Battlestar Galactica." We told him that wasn't the case and as it turns out, we were right.

About twenty percent of our board are avid watchers of GINO and I think that's a good microcosm comparison. Lots of people tuned in to watch something called "Battlestar Galactica" four years ago and now almost three quarters of them are gone. Sure, the sycophants come up with absurd excuses for the poor ratings. New ones pop up all the time. But the truth of the matter is people tuned out because they didn't like what they saw, just as we said.

So watch what you want, talk about what you want, and bitch about what you want. This has gone on as long as the piece of shit has been around and will continue to do so.

But there is a light at the end of the tunnel finally. Skiffy might take forever to air them, but the piece of shit's production will end soon. Then it will finally, all be over.

[BST]

That having been said, I'd like to know where the ability to express frustration on this board has suddenly been outlawed simply because the remarks might have hit too close to home.

Sorry, but this is a crock of shit.

Last time I looked CA was the same as it always was, if someone's making up alternate guidelines besides the FF, please point them out because they're not empowered to do so.

Saying that though, sometimes I could be mistaken that I'm visiting Politics-R-Us, Microshit-Is-Us or Curry's (UK electrical outfit). ;)

Vent on!

Ok....that was an overstatement and I'll retract it.

[Merlin]

I knew there was a reason I liked you, Merlin. :D

"Thanks Babe !!!!" Shaun of the Dead

[Tribe13]

To be honest, I still don't see why more isn't vented toward Larson than Ron Moore. In retrospect, I believe it really is more of Larson's fault that it's come to this. He talked and talked about picking the series back up, and never did.

While Moore's no angel on this, IMO, the real brunt of the blame in the end lands at Larson's feet, since I see Moore as a symptom more than a cause. I look at GINO and point at Glen and say "YOU were responsble for this."

[Eugenia]

After reading the initial screenplay for the undoudtedly shitty mini, and after all the wailing and complaining from all of us, I have to say, it does confuse me why people who expressed these sentiments are now willing to contribute to the rating scores of a show that has proven itself to be complete crap on every level, as is evidenced by its content.

Some of the same folks who rightly voiced ourtrage over the obvious crappy nature of RDM's writings, are now watching this garbage week in and week out, only contributing to its miniscule ratings success. For what?

I currently live in a state with a whopping 3 electoral votes. The television industry doesn't much care what the viewers do here. No one much cares what the residents do here unless it involves a bear or a moose.

The Razor preview is in the major TV markets. On a Monday when movie theater business is probably slowest. It's probably a marketing thing hoping the CGI and story will be whiz-bang enough for the people who do go to tell their friends to watch the show on TV and/or buy the DVD. To do something like this pretty much strikes me as desperation. (One of the theaters is a mile from where I used to live. If I was still in the area, I might be tempted enough just to scope out the audience and their reactions.)

I read the leaked mini-series script and thought it was lame, however sometimes it will work on screen (or on stage) depending on the actors and crew. As it turned out, I could only watch sections of the mini-series (and mostly with the sound off). It wasn't BSG as far as I was concerned.

When GINO began as a regular series, I thought I ought to give it a chance as a separate entity. I didn't particularly care for it and thought for a "serious" SF story it was really lacking. When the critics started proclaiming it was "the best thing on TV", I wondered what planet they lived on. The first season and a half were acceptable, but then started to fall apart. I missed the first episode or two of the Pegasus story arc, and have still not seen them and after reading all sorts of comments decided it wasn't worth bothering with.

Anyway, near the end of the second season of GINO and trying to deal with the increasingly obtuse, inconsistent and incoherent writing, I gave up trying to be objective about it. It was just bad SF and even bad drama with the most unlikable characters I had ever seen. Almost every one of them was some antithesis of their namesake. I was particularly annoyed by what they did with Tigh.

It didn't make matters any better when they aired Doctor Who which came back in a largely recognizable form and with the spirit of the original. (I also had a Supervisor From Hell.) This was about the time I decided to respond in defense of the original and to show the stupidity of GINO in various ways. (Even if it just displacement of anger due to the Supervisor From Hell.)

That Season 3 of GINO was just so incredibly bad made it easy to ridicule. I also wanted to find out the viewpoint of the critics and the fans who liked GINO to be able to respond according to the rules of their own game. I was truly astonished by the level of ivory-towerness and pseudo-intellectual posturing I found. Due to moving and other real life complications, I haven't finished with this little project yet.

If nothing else, the recent flashback minisodes provides some great illustrations as to the differences of the original series and how the GINO crew handled the same designs.

BSG actually stands up quite well when considered fairly for what it is and what it tried to accomplish. It is a testimony to the solidness of BSG that the GINO critics have to nit-pick things that are really minor surface details.

P.S. I don't have anything against the fans of GINO. Just Moore and Eick for their incredibly boneheaded remarks towards BSG and its fans.

[Gemini1999]

You know something that occurred to me...

It wasn't until someone said that we should be railing at Larson and not Ron Moore. I don't know how I really feel about it, but don't think that in some way that it really bothered me that seeing TOS uniforms, Raiders & Centurions on TNS themed flashbacks. I knew that it would probably happen sometime while TNS was on the air, it was just a matter of time.

I showed the flashbacks to a friend today that doesn't have cable or the internet (go figure some folks), but likes to watch TNS on tape. When I showed him the 4 flashbacks that have been released, he heard "Cylons building a superweapon" in one scene and "ice planet" in another....he then blurted out "Gun on Ice Planet Zero!"

It may be TNS, but people know where these references come from originally - they're almost indelible after nearly 30 years.

I just thought that I would share that.

Bryan

[Merlin]

To be honest, I still don't see why more isn't vented toward Larson than Ron Moore. In retrospect, I believe it really is more of Larson's fault that it's come to this. He talked and talked about picking the series back up, and never did.


Interesting !!!! Galactica 1980 ... The scripts for Battlestar Galactica season two .... Turning the show over to Moore ..... Does Glen Larson even like Battlestar Galactica ???? Since it was canceled, he certainly has't been to protective of his creation!


Makes me think .... What is worse, Galactica 1980 or Gino ?

[Dawg]

To be honest, I still don't see why more isn't vented toward Larson than Ron Moore. In retrospect, I believe it really is more of Larson's fault that it's come to this. He talked and talked about picking the series back up, and never did.

While Moore's no angel on this, IMO, the real brunt of the blame in the end lands at Larson's feet, since I see Moore as a symptom more than a cause. I look at GINO and point at Glen and say "YOU were responsble for this."

I would agree with that statement, except Larson can't do a damn thing with BSG on television - Universal owns the TV rights and can do whatever they damn well please with it - even destroy it if they want to. Since this was intended to be TV from the get-go, Larson couldn't do a thing about it. And Universal had every opportunity to pick up and do something with Larson, but they didn't.

Larson had to go to court to get his creator's rights exercised - and Eick broke his arm to write the check fast enough.

While I agree Glen Larson is more interested in a paycheck than in BSG (and he's not the only one with an interest in BSG with that bias), and for the last couple of decades he's sat on his ass and talked a good story, it was Universal who held the keys to the wagon.

I am
Dawg

[cynthia]

Guys, I thought that was really feakin' cool!

Presuming they keep it under $20, I'll probably shell out the cash for the DVD just for that sequence. Those 2 minutes might be the only thing I watch from the show, but I thought that was some really cool shit!


I was pretty impressed by the clip as well. This realy seems to be shaping up quite nicely

[TwoBrainedCylon]

GINO using original series stuff doesn't bother me a bit. GINO is out the door. I already see it as a "has been" series and its my belief that five years after it goes off the air, most will regard it with an indiffernet shrug. I'm far more curious as to the "why's" rather than offended that they've done it.

If anything, what caught me about Pete's posting was that it upset him because a few saw something they liked. I was again caught saying to myself "Why do you care what I like or don't like"?


For Pete specifically,

This might sound petty but part of me was irritated in the extreme that you decided to tell me how I should react to anything. You see it as venting frustration. I didn't argeu with your right to do so. I asked why my deciding that I liked something frustrated you in the first place. I still wonder that. I still don't grasp how my feelings for or against a GINO webisode affects you in any way. I was truly surprised by this outburst because it seemed that you were offended that I didn't hate something.

If you see us all as simply being part of a haters club then I'm afraid I'm the wrong guy.

Don did a rouded shuttle for GINO and they use it every now and then. I think its a kick-ass piece of work. Sure its a GINO thing but I really like it. Does that make me less of a Galactica fan? Do I have to like the baby murders and anti-Americanism because I like the shuttle design? Seemingly, that's the message you're giving me.

I don't see that as frustration, I see it as folly.


For a select few,

JJ and BST are some of my finest friends in fandom and I value everything they have to say. This is a disagreement of opinion, not a loss of credibility for anyone or a skewing of who I value or who I don't.

I don't know if I had to make that clear but I somehow felt that I should.


Sandy

[BST]

GINO using original series stuff doesn't bother me a bit. GINO is out the door. I already see it as a "has been" series and its my belief that five years after it goes off the air, most will regard it with an indiffernet shrug. I'm far more curious as to the "why's" rather than offended that they've done it.

If anything, what caught me about Pete's posting was that it upset him because a few saw something they liked. I was again caught saying to myself "Why do you care what I like or don't like"?


For Pete specifically,

This might sound petty but part of me was irritated in the extreme that you decided to tell me how I should react to anything. You see it as venting frustration. I didn't argeu with your right to do so. I asked why my deciding that I liked something frustrated you in the first place. I still wonder that. I still don't grasp how my feelings for or against a GINO webisode affects you in any way. I was truly surprised by this outburst because it seemed that you were offended that I didn't hate something.

If you see us all as simply being part of a haters club then I'm afraid I'm the wrong guy.

Don did a rouded shuttle for GINO and they use it every now and then. I think its a kick-ass piece of work. Sure its a GINO thing but I really like it. Does that make me less of a Galactica fan? Do I have to like the baby murders and anti-Americanism because I like the shuttle design? Seemingly, that's the message you're giving me.

I don't see that as frustration, I see it as folly.


For a select few,

JJ and BST are some of my finest friends in fandom and I value everything they have to say. This is a disagreement of opinion, not a loss of credibility for anyone or a skewing of who I value or who I don't.

I don't know if I had to make that clear but I somehow felt that I should.


Sandy

Sandy,

I don't know why the lid blew off on this but, it did.

Some of it, I think, is just part of my character. You see, when someone does me wrong, my memory of that wrong is very long. I don't easily forgive and I never forget. You are probably surmising the rest of this but, there is honestly no amount of "bones" that Ron could throw this direction with which I would truly find pleasure. He flipped the bird to this fanbase years ago and I haven't forgotten that. You do remember the "popcorn" references? That's why I can't accept anything like this with any sincerity on his part. I watched the clip and consider it something that will likely please the show's followers because it makes use of another item from TOS to tell Moore's miserable story. It did absolutely nothing for me. No pleasure, no satisfaction. To me, it was Ron flipping the bird all over again.

If you liked it, that's fine. Just like I told Bryan, whatever you want to watch is your prerogative. I haven't been able to stomach the show since the 12th or 13th episode from the 1st season. What I watched up to that point generally put me to sleep by about the 30-minute mark of the episode. Nothing since is worth my time.

[Wild Boar]

I'm a little late to this party, but I haven't been able to see this clip. YouTube says it has been removed. Is there anywhere I can find it?

[shrike6]

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/

[Kingfish]

It looked like the centurion had a tail. If it did this is a take on Alien:Resurrection when the Alien is swimming underwater. I am now wondering if Larson owns anything at all.

[Wild Boar]

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/

No wonder I couldn't find it. Haven't been there for eons.

[jewels]

Just an odd question (looked because I wanted to check out the centurion.)

Doesn't EJO have brown eyes?

The ultra-blue eyed actor playing young Husker seemed off for a just out of flight school character. Unless Husker was named for his mumbly husky voice. I can't say I saw more than an old style raider or centurion. The only thing remotely similar to the original viper pilot uniforms was that there was horizontal quilting. The yoke trim looked like half a zipper (probably just lighting). Just looks like same old, same old from RDM.

[JJRAKMAN]

JJ,

Let me be equally direct.

You and BST are badly mischaracterizing the folks who liked this small tidbit in the GINO universe.

Your premise is based on some bad assumptions.



Yeah, of course you're right. Sometimes my emotions incorrectly get the better of me, especially when it comes to anger. Maybe I'm a rageaholic. The primary frustration I feel is the fact that us TOS fans waited 25-30 years only to be treated to this. Sometimes when I think about it, it brings me to a place of irrational anger, and I suppose that should just be ignored. I just wish it could all end and be put into the toilet. That's all.

(as an aside I had to stick up for BST because no one else was.) ;)

[TwoBrainedCylon]

The primary frustration I feel is the fact that us TOS fans waited 25-30 years only to be treated to this. Sometimes when I think about it, it brings me to a place of irrational anger, and I suppose that should just be ignored. I just wish it could all end and be put into the toilet. That's all.

Your misstep was thinking that the few who saw this webisode and liked it don't feel the same frustrations you do. I'm certainly not going to lecture someone else on rage but there's a big difference between feeling rage at Universal and Skiffy and your fellow fans.

Personally, I see Ron's decision not to go with a continuation as a blessing. I truly do. After seeing what he's done with GINO, I'm glad he did something separate. In fact, I wish he'd have made his series as different as possible rather than return to the original series themes. As bad as GINO has been for the franchise, I certainly wouldn't want to have been watching Ron's continuation and have "enjoyed" Apollo jerking off at his desk or seen Starbuck married to Cassie but having affairs on her all the time and lying to her about it. This would have been the continuation future that Ron would have presented and the overwhelming theme that was pushed throughout would have been that the Cylons were the victims and that the Colonials didn't loath themselves enough for all thier sins.

So in this, I think we need to count our blessings as much as our curses.

I also think we should recognize that GINO will continue to damage this franchise regardless of what we do. Ron, Dave, Skiffy, and Universal will continue to spit our way without regard for us. That's simply the given conditions. We can stay enraged at it or realize that its THEIR problem and not ours. That sounds a lot like advice you'd give to an eight-year old but its also true.

Regardless of whatever happens, I'll continue to note the few positives that may come out of GINO as well as the negatives. I know that's a lot like watching a house burn down and complimenting the fire on some of the pretty colors the flames make but what are you going to do?



(as an aside I had to stick up for BST because no one else was.) ;)

Sometimes we all deserve it. In this case, Pete deserved the responses he got. They should have been a lot worse but I think we're all starting to mellow out on this board as we get older.


Sandy

[BST]

(as an aside I had to stick up for BST because no one else was.) ;)

Sometimes we all deserve it. In this case, Pete deserved the responses he got. They should have been a lot worse but I think we're all starting to mellow out on this board as we get older.

Sandy

How so? Granted, my opening tirade had a few items stated in a way that I wouldn't use again, in hindset. But, on the general subject of Razor and the webisodes, I could have said a whole hell of a lot worse.

Try to understand that I'm not being critical of a person's viewing tastes. I am just questioning why we are giving the show any time at all and when we are going to walk away from the 'train wreck' once and for all. I simply erred in how I presented it. I wrote that in the heat of the moment and it showed.

Maybe the overtures to TOS were nice for some but, to me they meant nothing except another slap in the face.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

How so? Granted, my opening tirade had a few items stated in a way that I wouldn't use again, in hindset. But, on the general subject of Razor and the webisodes, I could have said a whole hell of a lot worse.

Try to understand that I'm not being critical of a person's viewing tastes. I am just questioning why we are giving the show any time at all and when we are going to walk away from the 'train wreck' once and for all. I simply erred in how I presented it. I wrote that in the heat of the moment and it showed.

Maybe the overtures to TOS were nice for some but, to me they meant nothing except another slap in the face.

You opened up telling everyone else how they should feel about things and making absolute declarations. In a place ilke CA, that usually inspires a like response. The rules were originally written to say "Don't come here unless you can take a bloody nose". When you take such a shot at other members, in most cases you get pounded in return.

I thought the responses you got were overwhelmingly mild. Certainly, if anyone deserves a free pass, you do, but the responses were still pretty mild.



Sandy

[BST]

How so? Granted, my opening tirade had a few items stated in a way that I wouldn't use again, in hindset. But, on the general subject of Razor and the webisodes, I could have said a whole hell of a lot worse.

Try to understand that I'm not being critical of a person's viewing tastes. I am just questioning why we are giving the show any time at all and when we are going to walk away from the 'train wreck' once and for all. I simply erred in how I presented it. I wrote that in the heat of the moment and it showed.

Maybe the overtures to TOS were nice for some but, to me they meant nothing except another slap in the face.

You opened up telling everyone else how they should feel about things and making absolute declarations. In a place ilke CA, that usually inspires a like response. The rules were originally written to say "Don't come here unless you can take a bloody nose". When you take such a shot at other members, in most cases you get poinded in return.

I thought the responses you got were overwhelmingly mild. Certainly, if anyone deserves a free pass, you do, but the responses were still pretty mild.



Sandy

I very nearly took your response to JJ the wrong way ... that's why I questioned it. The way you explained it in the above quote is something that I can understand and appreciate.

Like I said about my initial remarks, they were written in a rush as I was leaving Sat morning to go out of town. Some of the 'absolutes' about things like the 'no middle ground', etc, would not make it to the final cut but, the underlying curiosity of why folks are even giving this the time of day still remain.

After all the events of the last 5 years, I consider the curiosity to be legitimate and worthy of questioning.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I very nearly took your response to JJ the wrong way ... that's why I questioned it. The way you explained it in the above quote is something that I can understand and appreciate.

Like I said about my initial remarks, they were written in a rush as I was leaving Sat morning to go out of town. Some of the 'absolutes' about things like the 'no middle ground', etc, would not make it to the final cut but, the underlying curiosity of why folks are even giving this the time of day still remain.

After all the events of the last 5 years, I consider the curiosity to be legitimate and worthy of questioning.

No worries on my part. If you haven't stirred the pot a few times around here you aren't really participating. At least from my view, you and I have more than enough of a solid relationship to to weather a few disputes ... and this one was far, far less rough than any of the waves that shook my boat the other day!


Don't sweat anything on my part.

The fool who said Wrath of Khan is a bad movie better look out though!!!



Sandy

[Martok2112]

[quote=BST]

The fool who said Wrath of Khan is a bad movie better look out though!!!



Sandy

WHAAT?! Who dares blaspheme "The Wrath of Khan"?!

Summon forth my 10,000 trained ninja llamas, and seek out the heretic!!!!

(just, let me get out of the way first)

:D

[BST]

I very nearly took your response to JJ the wrong way ... that's why I questioned it. The way you explained it in the above quote is something that I can understand and appreciate.

Like I said about my initial remarks, they were written in a rush as I was leaving Sat morning to go out of town. Some of the 'absolutes' about things like the 'no middle ground', etc, would not make it to the final cut but, the underlying curiosity of why folks are even giving this the time of day still remain.

After all the events of the last 5 years, I consider the curiosity to be legitimate and worthy of questioning.

No worries on my part. If you haven't stirred the pot a few times around here you aren't really participating. At least from my view, you and I have more than enough of a solid relationship to to weather a few disputes ... and this one was far, far less rough than any of the waves that shook my boat the other day!


Don't sweat anything on my part.

The fool who said Wrath of Khan is a bad movie better look out though!!!



Sandy

:)

btw, I owe you a post on another thread. :wink:

[Stallion Cornell]

I was out of town when this battle was raging, so I may have missed out. But I wanted to get my two cents in, albeit belatedly.

Thematically, when GINO has been somewhat true to its source material, I've been able to enjoy it. I didn't like Hand of God and Exodus Part II because the original costumes or ship designs returned - I liked them because, thematically, they felt like TOS. Yes, Moore and Eick have done everything they can to smother the original premise under gallons of contempt, but on rare occasions, TOS ideas rise to the surface and this show succeeds in spite of itself.

These Razor flashbacks, however, screw everything up.

Thematically, all these cool TOS designs are being put in to the service of a story that is diametrically opposed to TOS themes. It feels, to me, like Galactica 1980 all over again. Remember, G1980 had all the original designs, and even some of the original actors in their original roles. It looked like TOS, but it wasn't. These webisodes have nifty TOS visuals, but they're part of a story about angry lesbian Cain and her band of fascist neocons. True, the story of each webisode as a standalone entity is pretty innocuous, so I shouldn't get my panties in a bunch. But I find it impossible to separate them from their larger context.

Every time TOS theme music has been used in GINO, it has made me angry. I'm finding that seeing TOS production designs in GINO is eliciting a similar reaction. [/i]

[TwoBrainedCylon]

What I think might be missed here is that a couple of us liked the webisode not because they felt anything like the original series but because we just thought it was pretty good. I liked the freefall webisode because I thought it was cool, not because it was a spin on GINO or reminded me of the original series.

Having said that, to me, the webisodes have more of an original series feel than anything else ever seen in GINO, including the New Caprica escape or the GINO Hand of God.


Sandy

[Merlin]

The fool who said Wrath of Khan is a bad movie better look out though!!!
Sandy

I said it !!!!

WRATH of KHAN Sucks!!!
Bad Acting .... Bad Directing.... Bad Story !!!

"Better look out" ????.... For what ?
"Fool" ???? I've been called worse ! :roll:


"Gimme your best shot ... pal ..... I can take it" Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

[Martok2112]

The fool who said Wrath of Khan is a bad movie better look out though!!!
Sandy

I said it !!!!

WRATH of KHAN Sucks!!!
Bad Acting .... Bad Directing.... Bad Story !!!

"Better look out" ????.... For what ?
"Fool" ???? I've been called worse ! :roll:


"Gimme your best shot ... pal ..... I can take it" Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

Ah.


(Martok turns to his 10,000 trained ninja llamas)

'sic 'im!!!!


Ye'd best run, Merlin, before ye' become llamanated. :D

[Merlin]

The fool who said Wrath of Khan is a bad movie better look out though!!!
Sandy

I said it !!!!

WRATH of KHAN Sucks!!!
Bad Acting .... Bad Directing.... Bad Story !!!

"Better look out" ????.... For what ?
"Fool" ???? I've been called worse ! :roll:


"Gimme your best shot ... pal ..... I can take it" Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

Ah.


(Martok turns to his 10,000 trained ninja llamas)

'sic 'im!!!!


Ye'd best run, Merlin, before ye' become llamanated. :D

Careful !!!!! I may have to use the "Genesis Torpedo" on you ! Making you into a Wrath of Kahn hater too !

How could anyone think that that was a good movie ????

"The needs of the few outway the needs of the many" What a tear jerker that was ... I read somewhere that they wanted to use that in "Brokeback Mountain"... but the producer thought that would be too gay...

Trainy Crew !!! I'm surprised they weren't on a Tiger Cruise instead !!!

Loading a torpedo with broom handles ??? :D

[Titon]

I'm finding that seeing TOS production designs in GINO is eliciting a similar reaction.

Just think how bad ya feel when you've actually had a hand in delivering some of those.

:oops:

[Merlin]

I'm finding that seeing TOS production designs in GINO is eliciting a similar reaction.

Just think how bad ya feel when you've actually had a hand in delivering some of those.

:oops:

Hi Titon....Can you explain that a little more ??? I'm curios to know what your writing about ?

[Martok2112]

The fool who said Wrath of Khan is a bad movie better look out though!!!
Sandy

I said it !!!!

WRATH of KHAN Sucks!!!
Bad Acting .... Bad Directing.... Bad Story !!!

"Better look out" ????.... For what ?
"Fool" ???? I've been called worse ! :roll:


"Gimme your best shot ... pal ..... I can take it" Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

Ah.


(Martok turns to his 10,000 trained ninja llamas)

'sic 'im!!!!


Ye'd best run, Merlin, before ye' become llamanated. :D

Careful !!!!! I may have to use the "Genesis Torpedo" on you ! Making you into a Wrath of Kahn hater too !



NOOOO! Our shields can't repel firepower of that magnitude! (Oops...wrong franchise) :D

[Gemini1999]

"The needs of the few outway the needs of the many" What a tear jerker that was ... I read somewhere that they wanted to use that in "Brokeback Mountain"... but the producer thought that would be too gay...

Merlin -

That odd... I thought that I knew Brokeback Mountain and the slew of articles that were written about it quite well. I'd never heard that one before, but I'm guessing that you're exaggerating to make a point, eh?

Bryan

[Merlin]

"The needs of the few outway the needs of the many" What a tear jerker that was ... I read somewhere that they wanted to use that in "Brokeback Mountain"... but the producer thought that would be too gay...

Merlin -

That odd... I thought that I knew Brokeback Mountain and the slew of articles that were written about it quite well. I'd never heard that one before, but I'm guessing that you're exaggerating to make a point, eh?

Bryan

YEP !!!!!

[JSC1]

These webisodes have nifty TOS visuals, but they're part of a story about angry lesbian Cain and her band of fascist neocons.

Trust Stallion to get to the bottom of things. :wink:

[BST]

The fool who said Wrath of Khan is a bad movie better look out though!!!
Sandy

I said it !!!!

WRATH of KHAN Sucks!!!
Bad Acting .... Bad Directing.... Bad Story !!!

"Better look out" ????.... For what ?
"Fool" ???? I've been called worse ! :roll:


"Gimme your best shot ... pal ..... I can take it" Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

Hmmm.. do I tell him about the second half of my handle?

:wink:

[jewels]

Why not? :lol:

Sometimes it's fun just spectating 'round hereabouts. :)

[BST]

Why not? :lol:

Sometimes it's fun just spectating 'round hereabouts. :)

heh heh....

His pointy hat might go poof!

:D

[Merlin]

His pointy hat might go poof!

:D

Pointy hat ... reference to Merlin ... I guess!

I chose that name ... because that's my dog's name ...
Not because I'm any fan of Wizards, or anything of the genre ... So any Poofing that might happen ... Doesn't bother me in the least bit !!!!

"His pointy hat might go poof!" that's the best you can come up with ???

Did you guys ever see the movie Catch Me If You Can ... Try this ... Tom Hanks like to tell this joke..... Knock.... Knock ... you guys figure out the rest ....



A note: if you figure out what I'm talking about with the ... Knock... Knock... stuff..... remember .. this is all in good fun ... :D :D :D

[Gemini1999]

His pointy hat might go poof!

:D

Pointy hat ... reference to Merlin ... I guess!

I chose that name ... because that's my dog's name ...
Not because I'm any fan of Wizards, or anything of the genre ... So any Poofing that might happen ... Doesn't bother me in the least bit !!!!

"His pointy hat might go poof!" that's the best you can come up with ???

Did you guys ever see the movie Catch Me If You Can ... Try this ... Tom Hanks like to tell this joke..... Knock.... Knock ... you guys figure out the rest ....



A note: if you figure out what I'm talking about with the ... Knock... Knock... stuff..... remember .. this is all in good fun ... :D :D :D

Someone needs to get more fiber in his diet..... :wink:

[BST]

His pointy hat might go poof!

:D

Pointy hat ... reference to Merlin ... I guess!

I chose that name ... because that's my dog's name ...
Not because I'm any fan of Wizards, or anything of the genre ... So any Poofing that might happen ... Doesn't bother me in the least bit !!!!

"His pointy hat might go poof!" that's the best you can come up with ???

Did you guys ever see the movie Catch Me If You Can ... Try this ... Tom Hanks like to tell this joke..... Knock.... Knock ... you guys figure out the rest ....



A note: if you figure out what I'm talking about with the ... Knock... Knock... stuff..... remember .. this is all in good fun ... :D :D :D

Fun?

Hmmm. Thanks, I'll pass.

:roll:

Well, I thought I was done with this thread, but what the hey...

I'm with Sandy, in many regards on this.

My lukewarm liking of these webisodes have no bearing of my overall stance on the dreck that is GINO. Nor does it entice me to watch the movie that these are supposedly from, because, as I stated before, for every minute of good, there is an hour of absolute crap. SInce there has been a few minutes that I found to be good, there is absolutely no chance that anything is left for the movie. And for my part, I think I have been fairly even handed from the get-go on this. For those that remember my looong review of the mini, through now, know that I have always stated if I liked something in the show and also plenty that I have not liked. For the most part it was usually the FX that won my favor and not much of the story or characters. But I am not going to go into detail on that, because many of you have already read my view many many times on that subject.

But with that said, I don't know why anyone has their panties all tied in knotts over the fact that the topic of GINO still comes up. I also don't understand why there is the question, 'when will "WE" stop talking about GINO?'. For some reason, these folks seem to believe that they are forced to read and respond when someone brings up the subject... and apparently feel rather tired and pained by it.

Well, there is a simple solution... don't read the thread and don't respond to it. We are all grown ups here (Well, most of us anyway) that can decide for ourselves, what we want to talk about and what we don't. There are plenty of threads started on here that get overlooked and that few respond to. For those that GINO is a major eye-soar and just can't stand the threads... don't read them and don't respond to them. Its really that simple. It will save you some heartburn and maybe add a few minutes back to your lives, both by not reading them and by the sheer lowering of the stress factor by not putting yourself through pain.

And no, I am not TELLING anyone what to do. This is just a suggestion for those that are so pained by such threads.

Why get upset what others are talking about? I just don't get that. If a some here want to continue to chime in on the subject, why does it cause heartburn for others? It makes no sense to me. If I don't like a subject I read, I move on without posting.

For your own sakes, I recommend the same thing.

Rant off... back as you were.


Malkyte

[Merlin]

Fun?

Hmmm. Thanks, I'll pass.

:roll:

"Fun ? " ....... Yes ....

Meaning, it's just a joke, I didn't want anyone to feel they were getting insulted !!!

[Martok2112]

The Malkyte speaks the truth. Wise words. :)

[Kingfish]

I wonder if Adama is the final cylon model.

[BST]

Fun?

Hmmm. Thanks, I'll pass.

:roll:

"Fun ? " ....... Yes ....

Meaning, it's just a joke, I didn't want anyone to feel they were getting insulted !!!

Oh, ok. Well, I am sorry if I feel that reading a joke telling me to go "Fuck myself" is not particularly humorous.

[BST]

Fun?

Hmmm. Thanks, I'll pass.

:roll:

"Fun ? " ....... Yes ....

Meaning, it's just a joke, I didn't want anyone to feel they were getting insulted !!!

Just so there is no misunderstanding, this is the joke to which I was referring:

Carl Hanratty: Knock knock.
Earl Amdursky: Who's there?
Carl Hanratty: Go fuck yourselves.

Source: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0264464/quotes (first quote)

[BST]

Well, I thought I was done with this thread, but what the hey...

I'm with Sandy, in many regards on this.

My lukewarm liking of these webisodes have no bearing of my overall stance on the dreck that is GINO. Nor does it entice me to watch the movie that these are supposedly from, because, as I stated before, for every minute of good, there is an hour of absolute crap. SInce there has been a few minutes that I found to be good, there is absolutely no chance that anything is left for the movie. And for my part, I think I have been fairly even handed from the get-go on this. For those that remember my looong review of the mini, through now, know that I have always stated if I liked something in the show and also plenty that I have not liked. For the most part it was usually the FX that won my favor and not much of the story or characters. But I am not going to go into detail on that, because many of you have already read my view many many times on that subject.

But with that said, I don't know why anyone has their panties all tied in knotts over the fact that the topic of GINO still comes up. I also don't understand why there is the question, 'when will "WE" stop talking about GINO?'. For some reason, these folks seem to believe that they are forced to read and respond when someone brings up the subject... and apparently feel rather tired and pained by it.

Well, there is a simple solution... don't read the thread and don't respond to it. We are all grown ups here (Well, most of us anyway) that can decide for ourselves, what we want to talk about and what we don't. There are plenty of threads started on here that get overlooked and that few respond to. For those that GINO is a major eye-soar and just can't stand the threads... don't read them and don't respond to them. Its really that simple. It will save you some heartburn and maybe add a few minutes back to your lives, both by not reading them and by the sheer lowering of the stress factor by not putting yourself through pain.

And no, I am not TELLING anyone what to do. This is just a suggestion for those that are so pained by such threads.

Why get upset what others are talking about? I just don't get that. If a some here want to continue to chime in on the subject, why does it cause heartburn for others? It makes no sense to me. If I don't like a subject I read, I move on without posting.

For your own sakes, I recommend the same thing.

Rant off... back as you were.


Malkyte



Yes, I know. I did paint with a rather wide brush, now didn't I?

:wink:

I don't know if anyone wants this conversation to go on. I don't want it to continue -- at least not at my level of discontent a week ago. But, I'm not quite ready to fold my tent either. I think that the frustration about the show stems from seeing folks trying to do something more TOS-oriented, with mixed results.

For instance, I was initially quite intrigued and interested in listening to the Exodus audio stories and then, AFTER hearing them, my appetite was whet for more. Those stories were very, very well done and there was a level of sophistication and craftsmanship in their production. THAT type of storytelling and 'passion for telling the story' is what I want. BUT, will they continue?

Jon Rogers, RJandron, and others are working on a 14th colony story that will, when produced, put a smile on your face. It has many of those recognizable elements from TOS that most folks have been wanting to see. I just hope that it gets filmed and produced.

Those are items that I would like to see us, as a community, build upon. I've observed, over the years, that we have some damn good artists hanging around these sites, that we have some damn good storytellers hanging around these sites, and (as evidenced by the Colonial Fan Force campaigns), we have some damn good fund-raisers hanging around these sites. As a community, we have the wherewithall, one way or another, to pull off at least something on a somewhat professional level.

And I would like to be part of that.

Regarding the webisode, yeah, I watched the free-falling Cylon clip but, to be honest, it did nothing for me. It was like another slap in the face by the guy who told us that the "popcorn is in the other aisle". Perhaps there was something on the artistic level that folks appreciated and I should have taken that into account before I made my comments but, alas, I could only speak from my own point of view, however limited that is (or was).

[Scifipulse]

Guys, I thought that was really feakin' cool!

Presuming they keep it under $20, I'll probably shell out the cash for the DVD just for that sequence. Those 2 minutes might be the only thing I watch from the show, but I thought that was some really cool shit!

If they had made GINO like this, I'd have been a big, big fan.

I wasn't too impressed with the battle last week but for me, this was some really cool stuff.


Sandy

Worth noting that the battle seemed to have lasers. Though it was same sound effects which they use in the series. The Weapons fire looked like lasers whcih only makes Ginos version of the past with regards to space battles look more advenced than the present.

And last nights Adama finds what looks like early Cylon Experiements of them trying to create human looking cylons. Which kind of takes away from the surprise they all express in the mini series that Humanoid looking cylons exist.

In fact that is almost as bad a retcon plot wise than Boomer Cylon breaking with the law that humanoid cylons looked and scanned as identicle to humans, yet in season two she is able to save the whole fucking fleet by slitting her wrist and tearing some silica whire out of herself and hardwireing herself to Galacticas Hardrive, thus allowing her to hack into the cylon computers and cancell out their standing orders.

Seems to me that Ron Moore and co wrote themselves into a bloody corner early on in the series by trying to make it so bloody dark and devoid of hope. Now all of a sudden you have Sky Diving cylons and action set peices that should have been a part of a much better written and produced Galactica than this drek.

Its sad.

[Merlin]

Fun?

Hmmm. Thanks, I'll pass.

:roll:

"Fun ? " ....... Yes ....

Meaning, it's just a joke, I didn't want anyone to feel they were getting insulted !!!

Just so there is no misunderstanding, this is the joke to which I was referring:

Carl Hanratty: Knock knock.
Earl Amdursky: Who's there?
Carl Hanratty: Go fuck yourselves.

Source: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0264464/quotes (first quote)

Come on !!!! .... That line is one of the funniest lines in recent history in the movie's ...

there was no malice in what I wrote !!!!

I'm sorry that you think there is !!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Squonk63]

Having now watched ALL of the web mini-episodes in one sitting now, I have come to the conclusion that if THAT had been what we got back in the beginning, I suspect that there would be more old school fans onboard for the new series.

But like many here, I am not a fan of the anti-American tripe that makes its way into the dialog and plot lines of the show. I don't mind having my personal beliefs challenged in a constructive manner, but what this show does is sometimes way too transparent for my own tastes. Often, a viewer has to tilt their head sharply to the left to watch the thing.

The bottom line is whether or not I will tune into "Razor" later this month. At this point, I honestly don't know.

[Westy]

Hey everyone, long time no see!
I just finished watching Razor....parts of it were interesting and good, but most of it was pretty boring. A few particular scenes were amazing however, and for a few seconds I was in another world I thought I'd never see on screen again.

To sum it up, it's a big Pegasus/Cain fest, with flashbacks to GINO's first Cylon war and the start of GINO's second Cylon war. It was a joy to see a TOS style Raider flying by and seeing updated TOS Centurians! Wohoo! They even kept the TOS vocoder Cylon voice for them, which was too sweet. When I heard "By your command" I almost fell out of my seat.

It's worth watching it just for that alone IMO...

[Bishop37]

Amongst the flip-flopping through the recent past: Loopy-Lesbo Cain shoots her XO because she's bat-sh*t crazy and the Pegasus crew basically turn into the very thing they're supposed to be fighting against.

Loopy-Lesbo's legacy, Kendra Shaw, dies on a weird-looking Cyclone ship (which is protected by the Guardians – updated TOS centurions) talking to a man in a bath tub.

Lee isn't fat and Mancow Manimal isn't too annoying.

The Cyclone attack at the shipyards is very good but the three Cylons in the old-style Raider cockpit were like something from ReBoot.

Verdict: Mostly great VFX but still GINO.

The End

[Gemini1999]

Okay....

I'll admit it - I watched Razor yesterday. My feeling about it? It was okay...the best I could say about it was that the action/VFX/character/drama equation was more balanced than what was aired in season 3. The VFX were very good and there was a lot more of it. The story, well....I didn't really feel like I was seeing much more than the original TNS Pegasus story. It felt like I was revisiting the same story, but with a handful more backstory, so the original stuff made more sense. I didn't agree with how certain characters went from "a" to "b", but they at least explained it somewhat.

It was still dark, still depressing and it really didn't feel any different from the majority of TNS. I am curious about the DVD release though as there's supposed to be 20 minutes more footage not used in the broadcast release.

I'm sure that this 2-hour episode will manage to tie TNS fans over until Season 4 starts, but that's asking a lot of it. I really think that they should be starting in late February or early March - especially in light of the WGA strike.

Bryan

[jewels]

Er, it actually aired already? or are we utilizing Canadian benefactors again? :D

I truly do not care if or when it airs. I just thought the teaser webisodes had a few weeks left (but I've had a few messed-up weeks just lately).

[Bishop37]

Er, it actually aired already? or are we utilizing Canadian benefactors again?

No, it's not been aired. As what usually happens, someone got a screener DVD and made a Canadian.

[Commander Taggart]

I'm not going to download it. The slime might clog up my cable line.

[Gemini1999]

Er, it actually aired already? or are we utilizing Canadian benefactors again?

No, it's not been aired. As what usually happens, someone got a screener DVD and made a Canadian.

Peter -

You are correct. There were quite a few people on the Skiffy board that had already seen Razor and discussing it since it showed up on the "CBC" on 11/1. I held off for a couple of days and then just decided 'what the hell..' and watched it too.

Bryan

[JSC1]

Well at least viewers will be informed. Then they can decide whether the actual broadcast on Skiffy is worth their time or not.

Thank you to our neighbors from the north.

[cynthia]

Hey everyone, long time no see!
I just finished watching Razor....parts of it were interesting and good, but most of it was pretty boring. A few particular scenes were amazing however, and for a few seconds I was in another world I thought I'd never see on screen again.

To sum it up, it's a big Pegasus/Cain fest, with flashbacks to GINO's first Cylon war and the start of GINO's second Cylon war. It was a joy to see a TOS style Raider flying by and seeing updated TOS Centurians! Wohoo! They even kept the TOS vocoder Cylon voice for them, which was too sweet. When I heard "By your command" I almost fell out of my seat.

It's worth watching it just for that alone IMO...

Awesome to hear good things, looking forward to seeing the raider and centurians. Only a few more weeks to wait.

[dilbertman]

Do not know if this has been posted before, but what a new idea.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Razor


According to an early review at Eclipse Magazine, the main story of "Razor" takes place right before the attack on the Colonies and also 10 months later, just as Lee Adama is taking command of Pegasus. The plot will also tie directly into a previously mentioned Season 4 story arc depicting a Cylon civil war, as the film briefly centers on a faction of Cylons whose purpose is to protect the "guardian". These Cylons seem to have foreknowledge of the role that Starbuck will play in guiding humanity, and claim that she is the harbinger of the 'Apocalypse for the human race'. Furthermore, they explicate that all of this has happened before and all of this will happen again

Jim :roll:

[Kingfish]

A cylon civil war? This is the same concept used by Richard Hatch for his Second Coming project. I thought Ron Moore wanted an original series that had no ties to os BG. All Ron has done is copy the origiinal BG which he has no understanding of.

[jewels]

Do not know if this has been posted before, but what a new idea.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Razor


According to an early review at Eclipse Magazine, the main story of "Razor" takes place right before the attack on the Colonies and also 10 months later, just as Lee Adama is taking command of Pegasus. The plot will also tie directly into a previously mentioned Season 4 story arc depicting a Cylon civil war, as the film briefly centers on a faction of Cylons whose purpose is to protect the "guardian". These Cylons seem to have foreknowledge of the role that Starbuck will play in guiding humanity, and claim that she is the harbinger of the 'Apocalypse for the human race'. Furthermore, they explicate that all of this has happened before and all of this will happen again

Jim :roll:I see that as a blatant steal, also, sans the everything's happened before garbage . :roll:

[cynthia]

A cylon civil war sounds like it has potential, i could be into it.

[Commander Taggart]

*Yawn*

[Sept17th1978eightPM]

*Plop*