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[Bishop37]

http://signs.cafepress.com/john-mccain_election-2008_funny-political-humor_outdoor-signs

[Darth Marley]

Meh.

Typical that some can't understand the higher motives of national security and peace through strength.
Just call it ignorance and greed, and pat your self on the back.

[Wild Boar]

The party that has been claiming that we're in a recession for the last year spouting off about ignorance is funny.

Socialism is a mental disorder and a display of total idiocy.

[Callipygian]

It's amusing that Democrats criticize and denounce Republican candidates, politicians and policies while Republicans criticize and denounce the people who subscribe to the Democratic party. I avoid any political debate on this forum because there's no point to it. No one here will ever be won over by another's opposing views. Much name calling and very little genuine debate take place.

Calli

[Wild Boar]

I have to disagree with your analysis Calli. Many times I've stated clearly my philosophies on tax policies and their impacts to almost no substantive response. Democrats have no substantive response to logical discussions on environment and energy policies. Democrats have no substantive or logical response on national security.

Yet it's OK for dems to call Republicans "ignorant."

Hmmm...

[Darth Marley]

It is true that the divisions are pretty much a stalemate.

But that just means either side is equally stubborn.

It is annoying when the facts don't give any traction though. it indicates that the truth really doesn't matter.
Like on economic matters, both Kennedy and Reagan knew that supply-side policies and tax cuts would benefit the economy.
But still, Democrats refuse to accept the technical facts and instead rely on celebrities and comedians to make jokes about "trickle down" economics.
So, there isn't any debate there, and worse than that, there isn't any search for truth.

There is plenty to criticize Republicans about, plenty of things they get flat out wrong, like issues of church and state. And walking them through the truth about the religious beliefs of the founders does not sway them either.

Sounds like...confirmation bias!

[Callipygian]

But that just means either side is equally stubborn.
Very true.



It is annoying when the facts don't give any traction though. it indicates that the truth really doesn't matter.
The problem is that there is no agreement, no meeting of the minds, as to what is fact and what is opinion. It shouldn't be so, but it is true nontheless. Each side clings tightly to their own set of "facts". Fact is supposed to be synonymous with truth. A fact is supposed to be irrefutable. Not so in politics.



So, there isn't any debate there, and worse than that, there isn't any search for truth.
A very sad fact (ironically).

Calli

[Darth Marley]

Some facts are known with a slippery degree of certainty.

Just like once a flat world was accepted as fact, or the usefulness of Newtonian mechanics are accepted as fact rather than a closely accurate model, some "facts" are context dependent.

[necron2.0]

The problem with facts and truth is largely that facts are all subjective to some degree, while actual truth is not. Take for instance the "fact" of seperation of church and state. It is not a "fact." In the history of mankind it has never been a fact. Even among the founding father, the "factuality" of it is uncertain, open to interpretation, and generally not universal (see http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa052600c.htm). Likewise, the scholarship that says it is a fact has to be judged as somewhat lacking. All of that is opinion, conjecture and hearsay - on both sides. The truth, probably, lies somewhere in the middle.

Personally, I'm usually disinterested in those sorts of arguments. I'm just not for the promotion of one religion over all others, just because the one is robed in "intellectual enlightenment" exactly like an emperor in his new clothes. Truth and fashion have never been acquaintances.

[Wild Boar]

Necron, I think you have fact and truth backwards. Truth is more a matter of faith where facts are provable.

[Langolas]

Necron, I think you have fact and truth backwards. Truth is more a matter of faith where facts are provable.

That was Indy's assertation in Last Crusade. His class was in search of facts. If you were looking for truths then they should go to the philosophy class down the hall.

I happen to agree.