Free Speech Classic Sci-Fi Forum

[Sept17th1978eightPM]

That would be a quick one line description, accurate no? I thought the current dust up was being handled by parties behind the scenes, I even read a thoughtful well written apology yesterday.

This may not be a democracy but free speech is still the rule, so the poll questions are simple. Let the membership speak!

[BST]

That would be a quick one line description, accurate no? I thought the current dust up was being handled by parties behind the scenes, I even read a thoughtful well written apology yesterday.

This may not be a democracy but free speech is still the rule, so the poll questions are simple. Let the membership speak!

John,

With all due respect, I think the timing of this is ..... not good.

I'm content to give the folks involved in the situation the time and space needed to resolve the issue without having my 2 cents to worry about. If they're interested in my thoughts, I'm only a post or PM away.

:)


Pete


Hopefully, no hard feelings about this.

[Wild Boar]

Board owners and moderators often need to take difficult positions with regard to the content of their forums. Back in the bbs days, I used to help moderate a Soapbox forum and we had to rule with an iron fist regarding abusive comments, so I definitely understand how it is difficult to balance the need to foster conversations with the need to enforce certain policies.

I enjoy this forum. While I'm not a prolific poster, lots of new info that I find interesting is posted frequently. I appreciate the insights that many of the members have regarding science fiction, TV, movies and related fields.

I've probably been one of the people frowned upon for some of the political comments. However, politics isn't the reason any of us are here and I fully support the ownership in their decision to ban as much as possible political discussion. My only suggestion would be to remove the claim of free speech (moderated boards by their very nature aren't really free speech, IMO, and I'm good with that).

There are obviously some things happening behind the scenes to which some of us are not privvy and I'm getting a feeling that I'm completely clueless as to what those are. These situations can cause a lot of frustration and headaches for board owners. Once again, I appreciate the owners positions and will do my best to abide by their rules in the hopes that I don't contribute to any of these problems either.

The only question I have regards a gray area. We discuss movies and TV quite a bit here and the makers of this fare frequently insert politics into their products. Should we drop discussion of these shows and movies if it strays into criticism or praise of the political message contained within them?

Overall, I appreciate the work done by the owners to provide this forum and to keep it on-target regarding its primary purpose.

[Sept17th1978eightPM]

Pete, I hear you and if this thread needs to be nuked in this atmosphere I'm fine with that. I'd really like to see the membership vote, I'd like to see what we're thinking in the numbers.

[dru]

Board owners and moderators often need to take difficult positions with regard to the content of their forums.

I've been in all kind of moderated and unmoderated communities online and this is one of the most reasonable I've encountered in my travels.

Too many have seen tin horn dictators rise to the power of moderator and ruined the experience. I learned quickly to avoid the true free-for-alls because usually the signal/noise ratio is intolerable.

I find acting as a moderator to be a burden when someone's been such an ass he needs to be taken out back and flogged with a daggit of nine tails.

[Loki]

I didn't vote and won't because my feeling is the owners and moderators have the right to run the forum as they please. There are lots of other forums in which people can go to and debate things like politics, if that's what they want to. There are lots of forums they can go to and be as polite or as nasty as they want, if that's what they desire.

The people paying the bills make the decisions and they're the ones who get to say what goes on in their forum.

[Gemini1999]

I'd vote, but I think that the forum needs to resolve their internal issues internally...

It's not really a matter that should be discussed in an open forum, unless the forum owners feel that it needs to be discussed. Out of respect for Peter, John and Bill, I'd say that this is best left to them.

Bryan

[Dawg]

Over the last few days, issues have arisen on this board - arisen, hell, they've exploded - that have been smoldering for awhile.

The owners are in private conference regarding these issues. It may take a few days in real-time to come to any real solutions or conclusions, but I will ask our members to give us the space we need to accomplish this.

Thanks.

I am
Dawg

I am also not going to vote on this. It is premature to say the least.

While I am concerned at some recent events, I would like to give the above requested space and time for the board leadership to straighten things out. Mind you, I was going to do this before I even read Dawg's post.

As in the past, hopefully they will come to a amicable solution.

I consider CA my only online home, so it does concern me if things get out of hand. But I trust in the leadership to iron out whatever needs to be, in the background.


Malkyte

[Devlyn16]

I voted, in that I am and always have been happy with the way this board is run.

I would like to add that IF the ban on political speech is lifted then I hope to see it contained in a Seperate forum similar tot the waty things were handled for the last Presidental election.

[jewels]

My vote is more for liking to hang out here with everyone, even when we oppose each other, at least there's more thought and reason than many places on the net.

The general structure isn't broke. Personal sensitivities might have to be checked a little more often (as in self-checked) so that we aren't taking out on real people our aggravation about what a show or people running it are spewing within that show.

There are all good people involved and I'll be praying they give themselves time to breathe, time to realize it's OK to screw up every now and then and time to evaluate their personal goals and time and how they want to spend them.

Jewels

[Martok2112]

I too will abstain from voting.

While I often find myself in contrary points of view regarding certain shows with other members of this forum, especially the Imperious Leader ( :) ), I do enjoy hanging out here because there are some cool subjects (especially in the realm of sci-fi) that we discuss, and that I actually do share similarities with those same members as far as our views on certain sci-fi, or action, or drama, or even videogames.

I think sometimes, some folks use the words "free-speech" to justify cowardly, behind the keyboard attacks...where the anonymity of the Internet allows someone to launch into whatever attacks they please with the possible benefit of knowing that he/she will never come face to face with the person they are antagonizing.

I do believe the rule may roundaboutly say: "Don't say to someone here what you wouldn't say directly to their faces." I agree with this sentiment 100 percent, and then some.

And if some of the folks here said to another's face what they have to say online when it comes to near personal attacks over a fraking TV show, in the words of the original Adama, "I'd recommend them for the catharsis treatment." (Whatever in the hell that was. It just sounded cool. :D )

But, folks, I generally like to apply my viewpoint here as I do with any TV show. I don't overly concern myself with the behind the scenes felgercarb. I just enjoy my time here....and I, despite my aloofness, hope that this does get resolved as expediently as possible.

I await the Imperious Leader's indulgence.

So Say Me All. :)
Martok2112

[StarshipTrooper]

Hi,

I abstained from voting as well. Every forum has issues at times, including BSGClub.com that I host. But these issues are best handled by the staff and in private.

Regards,

Nathan

[Gemini1999]

One of the reasons I abstained from voting is that even if folks have issues with how the forum is run, voting for a big change is almost like a vote of "no confidence" in the staff's ability to deal with whatever issues it has to deal with.

I moderate on 2 Trek sites in addition to Colonial Fleets and every site has it's issues where staff and members are concerned. It's all part of the genre and the genre is heavily populated by smart, creative people. In my experience, creative people are some of the most highly strung that I've seen. Sometimes, you just have to accept people for who they are and what they contribute. The one thing that you can't forget is that everyone has feelings and needs to be respected on some level.

The one thing that I will say about Cylon Alliance is that as one of the original BSG themed boards, it's nearly the last of it's kind and should be treated as such. The membership might not be in large numbers, but the fact that we come back here every day is an obvious sign that this is where we want to be as a group. If Cylon Alliance were to go away one day, what then? Where will we go?

If you look at the main page and browse through some of the shows/films of days gone by, you realize that this isn't just another BBoard to come and bash heads over stuff. It's almost like a SciFi museum of sorts and if it were gone, that would be a sad thing indeed.

Bryan

[dilbertman]

I have also abstained from voting. All I wish is the site and forum stays around for years to come. I remember a few years ago something like this happen and the site and forum almost when away. Don't make me go back to the scifi forum.

Noooooooo!!!

Jim :shock: :P

What Dawg said.

[Tribe13]

For me: no vote, no complaint.

But I still want a pizza parlor here.

[BST]

Even though it may not seem like it to those directly involved but, there are times when having the 'lid blow off the kettle' serves a useful purpose.

A couple of years ago, I wrote a thread at Fleets entitled "Message to the Fleets Family". Although directly addressed to Fleets members, it has universal application. One item that I stressed there, and will stress here, is that "No disagreement is equal to the cost of losing a friendship."

When faced with that possibility, it is usually best to step back, take a deep breath and walk away. Then, when one comes back, see if the item which was so pressing, earlier, is still as much of an issue now. If so then, carefully consider just exactly what is going to be said.

Sometimes the most effective message is the one that is never stated.


My best wishes to the all those involved in the situation and prayers for a peaceful and reasonable resolution.

[Gemini1999]

Even though it may not seem like it to those directly involved but, there are times when having the 'lid blow off the kettle' serves a useful purpose.

A couple of years ago, I wrote a thread at Fleets entitled "Message to the Fleets Family". Although directly addressed to Fleets members, it has universal application. One item that I stressed there, and will stress here, is that "No disagreement is equal to the cost of losing a friendship."

When faced with that possibility, it is usually best to step back, take a deep breath and walk away. Then, when one comes back, see if the item which was so pressing, earlier, is still as much of an issue now. If so then, carefully consider just exactly what is going to be said.

Pete -

That's some really good advice. I remember some of the periodic "blow outs" we had at Fleets a few years ago. For the most part, the air would get cleared and people came away with a greater understanding than going in. However, at the same time, there were moments when people let their hair down completely and some relationships were never quite the same afterwards.

The original BSG community seems to keep getting more fractured as time goes on. Little by little, people drift off to other parts of the net after getting burned out from BBoard conflicts. I know that there will always be people that don't agree, but most people come to a BBoard because they want to hang out with folks that share the same interests. You don't usually hang out at a BBoard for the more "lively" stuff unless you're a bit twisted and drawn to the drama.

I hope that all this shakes out in a postive way.....that's all we can hope for.

Bryan

[BST]

Even though it may not seem like it to those directly involved but, there are times when having the 'lid blow off the kettle' serves a useful purpose.

A couple of years ago, I wrote a thread at Fleets entitled "Message to the Fleets Family". Although directly addressed to Fleets members, it has universal application. One item that I stressed there, and will stress here, is that "No disagreement is equal to the cost of losing a friendship."

When faced with that possibility, it is usually best to step back, take a deep breath and walk away. Then, when one comes back, see if the item which was so pressing, earlier, is still as much of an issue now. If so then, carefully consider just exactly what is going to be said.

Pete -

That's some really good advice. I remember some of the periodic "blow outs" we had at Fleets a few years ago. For the most part, the air would get cleared and people came away with a greater understanding than going in. However, at the same time, there were moments when people let their hair down completely and some relationships were never quite the same afterwards.

The original BSG community seems to keep getting more fractured as time goes on. Little by little, people drift off to other parts of the net after getting burned out from BBoard conflicts. I know that there will always be people that don't agree, but most people come to a BBoard because they want to hang out with folks that share the same interests. You don't usually hang out at a BBoard for the more "lively" stuff unless you're a bit twisted and drawn to the drama.

I hope that all this shakes out in a postive way.....that's all we can hope for.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan. :)

You know, as time passes and the dream of a continuation gets more and more remote, it occurred to me that maybe "WE" are the continuation. Perhaps our collective affection for the original show is what drew us together and though we've had our ups and downs through the last 4 or 5 years, many of us are still here. That shows that it is more than just the show that keeps us here. It's friendship, mutual admiration, and similar interests (as you mentioned) that keep us here. Perhaps that is the true legacy of TOS.

:)

[Sept17th1978eightPM]

The membership might not be in large numbers, but the fact that we come back here every day is an obvious sign that this is where we want to be as a group. If Cylon Alliance were to go away one day, what then? Where will we go?

That quote says a lot and that is why I thought our voices as the membership should be heard through a vote. In a cigar smoked back room the fate of this site is being debated we should at least be heard.

[Gemini1999]

The membership might not be in large numbers, but the fact that we come back here every day is an obvious sign that this is where we want to be as a group. If Cylon Alliance were to go away one day, what then? Where will we go?

That quote says a lot and that is why I thought our voices as the membership should be heard through a vote. In a cigar smoked back room the fate of this site is being debated we should at least be heard.

John -

I can appreciate and in some part, agree with what you are saying, but I would think that such a poll should come from the CA administration. If it came from them, it would obviously show that they are asking for suggestions and be receptive in receiving them. When the poll comes from the membership, it seems more critical than anything else and puts the administration on the defensive. You could probably have that poll and then what? Generally a BBoard is run by the owners and staff and they set up the standards for membership to follow, not the other way around.

I'm willing to wait and see what comes of the private discussions.

Bryan

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I think the wishes of the general membership here are well known. The concerns being addressed involve not only the members who are here but the ones who have been alienated in one fashion or another or who feel that they need to watch their words for whatever reason. They also concern certain issues that the folks involved are willing to throw themselves on their swords for and in some of these areas, personal values and principles may triumph over the popular desires of the membership. The issue isn't so much one of recognizing what the members want to see happen but identifying where the common ground exists between those involved in the dispute.

CA has been through a number of changes and some of the shifts have created a mixture of philosophies and approaches that didn't always leave a clear path to follow, either for the staff or the members. Combined with this is the reality that the very nature of all fandoms that call themselves Galactica have changed immensely since CA was launched. Its appropriate that the folks who are doing so take a good look at how this site fits into the present environment and what it needs to be in the future, or indeed to what purposes the site now serves.

Everyone who is a regular here has an investment of some kind, both in emotions and the time and support they've given over the years. I'll go as far as to say that even among the back room cigar smokers, the fact that there are strong disagreements don't mean that the legitimate points from opposing positions aren't being recognized and considered.

However, The Cylon Alliance has never been run according to a popular vote. Aside from the fact that any BBoard is in essence a reflection of the staff in charge at the time and will attract and repel members favorable to those views, there is also the vital concept that a democracy must be more than two wolves and sheep deciding what to have for dinner. Cylon.org was founded on the principle that the guy with the unpopular voice should have an equal footing with those who spout "the party line". In that vein, the one guy who is the outcast can often be more important to determining the way a place like this works than the chorus of folks giving the popular viewpoint.

John has asked that everyone give him a chance to work some issues and I support that. Anyone who has been here more than 15 minutes knows that there are some strong personalities involved and John could use some cooperation over the next couple of days.

If anyone really wants to make their thoughts known, they can contact me by e-mail at rsanders8@cfl.rr.com or PM me either here or at Skiffy.
I'm quite certain that any of the Fantastic Four would be open to hear your thoughts as well. You can PM them here also. I'll leave it to each of them to determne if they want to add any of their own contact data.


Sandy

I'd also like to express support for a resolution of this behind the scenes. I am confident they are aware of the various issues and its impact on the board members, and hopefully a solution will be reached. Maybe we should add a third element to John's poll: a vote of confidence in the various interested parties that this will resolve itself, peacefully, and with the least rancor as possible.

[Darth Marley]

Cylon.org was founded on the principle that the guy with the unpopular voice should have an equal footing with those who spout "the party line". In that vein, the one guy who is the outcast can often be more important to determining the way a place like this works than the chorus of folks giving the popular viewpoint.

That pretty much summed up what made me like this place in the beginning.

[Scifipulse]

Not sure if this suggestion will be worth anything. But have voted to keep things as they are.

Though having took a moment to think, I suggest that instead of banning political debate, because it is only a small group that will engage in it anyhow.

Why not just have a seperate section of the board where this group can blow off steam. Discuss their differences and the socio political nature of certain shows and what not in a seperate corner of the board while keeping this main section open to the lighter side of the genre.

I mean withoug mentioning names because you all know who your are. Some of your when you get into political debate blow off some major heat and are very obviously passionate about what you believe, which often does lead to heated exchanges which will at times tick off the more sensative poster.

So my solution would be a seperate area of the board for anything which moves into the political realm. That way those that do not wish to get involved in the political debate and do not want to read it can very easily avoid doing so.

That way you get to keep your status as a free speach board.

Also if someone does get too abusive how about having a mod warn them, and after that warning mute their account for say 24 to 48 hours to allow them time to get it out their system. This actually works on other boards. It maybe a bit extreme but in hockey they have a sin bin do they not?