Razor

[Wild Boar]

OMG this was amazing! I've never been put to sleep more quickly in my life (OK, James Bond "The Living Daylights" put me to sleep just about as quickly). They've discovered a product that could compete with any soporific on the market.

Dull, dreary and depressing sums it up. Toss in lots of annoying flash backs, 10 month and 40 year, and you add a nice dash of confusing.

The story rarely makes sense and the characters are nonsense.

The token use of TOS cylon stuff was only marginally interesting.

I've kinda kept track of BS Galactica with a combination of hope that it will eventually accidentally get better and morbid curiosity. This was dull enough that even those factors may now be removed.

What a snooze fest.

[StarshipTrooper]

Hi,

Well, my DVR is churning away, but I haven't watched Razor yet. I'm still catching up on Skiffy's Enterprise marathon that was on Thanksgiving Day. Right now: In A Mirror, Darkly, Part 1.

Regards,

Nathan

[Wild Boar]

When you decide to watch it, keep lots of coffee or Mountain Dew on hand.

[Martok2112]

Well....I'd have to disagree. This was a very cool story to watch, and the space battles were pretty exciting. It was also interesting seeing the events leading up to the discovery, capture, and eventual torture of Gina...the Cylon infiltrator aboard Pegasus.

I'd say the only thing I was disappointed by was the CGI of the Original Series Centurions. Admittedly, they looked like a bad cutscene from a videogame. But hearing them speak was a nice touch.

But, that's all I really have to say about Razor, except that, of course, I'll be getting the extended DVD on Dec. 4th.

Respectfully,
Martok2112

[Commander Taggart]

It's been so easy to ignore this smelly, slimy, compost heap of an unoriginal idea, it isn't even funny.

[Sept17th1978eightPM]

I await the steller ratings and what if anything they tell us. :roll:

[Darth Marley]

I liked it for what it was. A little extra story for those who enjoyed parts of season two.

In fact, the Razor movie was better than most of S3 as far as I am concerned.

[D'Ger]

Okay, my curiousity is now satisfied. Sitting here at work, I turned on the last half-hour of "Razor" (since someone recently posted that the TOS Cylons don't appear until the last 20 minutes). The only thing that did for me was make me wonder when "The 14th Colony" will be ready for viewing.

This also makes me wonder what would really be standing in the way of Universal making a continuation miniseries or series of telefilms. As in usual GINO fashion, the effects were subpar, but that is what has become expected from just about all televisied science fiction that isn't "Star Trek".
If "Razor" has proven anything, it's that it would be possible to produce some rather inexpensive TOS-themed telefilms. I'm sure the existing sets could be redressed in such a way to pass for the original designs, which would keep costs down even more. Perhaps when GINO finally wraps production, someone at Universal will have the good sense to take that opportunity to test those waters.

Dan

[Vanamonde]

I forgot to watch it. I'll have to catch a rerun based on what Martok and Marley had to say about it.

Dave

[TwoBrainedCylon]

My rerun review (inviting other rerun reviews to follow):


My review of Razor:


I was caught between wondering if this was more of a huge, freaking yawnfest or if this telemovie was more full of itself than any production I've seen in the past ten years. I’ve rarely seen such thin material masking as deep, relevant portrayals. The concepts of “The Picture of Dorian Gray” have rarely been as weakly played as it was in this telling, partly because the base material just isn’t there and partly because the important concepts are scattered throughout the bounce back and forth format. What substance is there is lost in the illusions and overblown imagery which marks one of the most sophisticated smoke and mirrors presentations I’ve seen in a long, long time.

As a medium to bring back the original Galactica icons, this presentation simply sucks.

… and the icons don’t look very good either.

Once I was beyond the laborious (and boring) beginnings, I noted that the VFX in Razor were perhaps some of the worst I’ve seen in the entire series. What I previously thought was filler VFX displayed in the webisodes is in fact nothing more than the run of the mill effects in the entire teleplay. Fanfilms have done better and I’ve certainly seen far better from the very people that did this work. The raiders themselves were practically useless and the centurions looked like they belonged in a video game. They did get in a classic “By your command” but for reasons unknown to me, the centurions have been transformed from their cool 70s voices to the Star Wars prequel “dork” voices. I had to wonder how hard it was for the sound guy to put some bass into the voices so they would sound cool again. Since this sort of shift takes all of 3 minutes to accomplish (I know, I’ve done it myself dozens of times), I have to presume that this was an intentional presentation. Likely, someone was concerned that the some fan might like the original versions better, although I can’t imagine why.

Even the GINO centurions were looking pretty lame. Apparently, someone has decided to abandon using shaders in the renderings and the change shows badly. The only shots in which the shaders seemed to have been included were in the crashed raider backdrop, which shows the fighter to be chrome, except that the fighter isn’t supposed to be chrome. Ironically, the 70s centurion laying over it doesn’t have a shader turned on and looks pretty plastic … but I digress.

Mostly, I finshed watching Razor and wondered what was the point. Since the telemovie really plays like a slew of deleted scenes from previous episodes, its only real purpose seems to be to try to provide new look at the older episodes. In that frame, I asked myself what message was being put forth and came up with the following answers:

1. The lesbian Cain really wasn’t the evil ***** that most viewers thought she was (and we shouldn’t worry about the rape scene that everyone got upset about because she really was doing all that for a good reason).

2. To be a good leader you have to be really, really intense, order your people to commit suicide, and disregard any and all considerations as to whether a military objective or target has any relevance to your overall strategy.

3. War makes people into twisted killers who lack any and all morality and forces them to be as dangerous to their own side as the enemy.

4. In war, a good military force plunders civilians. (More on this in a bit)

5. Playing with knives makes you a more serious warrior.

6. The GINO Cylons don’t have a higher understanding of anything, just a set of phrases that when repeated seriously enough, infer that something cosmic is going on.

7. When you’re stuck for a story point, have the lead characters threaten to nuke their own people.

8. If you’re a GINO Colonial strategist, you should worry intensely about where to get the metal for constructing replacement fighters but totally disregard the fact that your battlestar fires enough metal for three vipers every four seconds just to put up a pretty light show.

9. Lee Adama really is a good warrior, not the whining, sniveling, crying wuss that we saw when this story was originally covered.

10. Its only civilian oversight that prevents the military from being more ruthless, bloody killers. (More on this in a bit as well).

Well, more on that now, actually.

The military out of control/fall of the hero theme could have worked really well in this context but sadly, it doesn’t. Razor spends so much effort showing folks in uniform walking slowly with overexposed backgrounds for that mystic feel and twirling knives and sad looking people that it seems to miss its own point. With the small amount of time left after showing the illusions to actually cover the story, this telemovie infers all that should have actually been shown. As a result, the lesbian Cain is a chick who simply opts to be more intensive and more irrational simply because that makes her more ready for the resulting action that we know must follow.

That action of course, never follows, and neither does the reasons she needs to take such actions. Through the miracle of a screenplay, lesbian Cain is successful but it happens against all logic. She shoots her XO for rightly telling her that she’s leaping into a trap, effectively without a plan, after privately laying down the rules of what she would and wouldn’t do. Given that to this point, she’s sworn on revenge, she’s throwing away her resources for a relatively insignificant target. In this, unlike the real Cain, the lesbian version is a strategic and tactical moron. This flies in the face of the loyal crew shown later who swears they were only alive because of her leadership. I accept that for the story but the evidence shown goes directly against this conclusion.

Likewise, the later mission against the Guardian is equally useless. Having discovered a lost group of Cylons, the GINO version of the 70s icons, Olmos and Lee decide they must destroy it. Since Olmos miraculously crashed on the landed baseship-thing and saw some captive humans, … and failed to rescue them minutes before the armistice was signed, he needs to see these guys destroyed because a couple of raptor crews were lost. Its touching that Olmos has a “Saving Private Ryan” moment and he somewhat redeems himself in his contrast and longing for life as opposed to everyone else in this teleplay who wants to show their intense military leadership by killing their own people but it doesn’t make the mission any less stupid, especially since the target is an element the rest of the GINO Cylons have rejected themselves.

Somewhere, this fleet was supposed to be trying to find Earth. If (though the flashback filler) they were supposed to be going on a full war attack, why were they remarkably devoid of any wish to return and take back the Colonies and rescue as many survivors there as possible?

I don’t know. The writers don’t know. The viewers certainly don’t know.
… but we do have action – sorta.

The one good moment in the entire show comes when the GINO centurions board the Pegasus. Its an all too brief minute or so but it is pretty cool. Beyond that, there’s not much worth seeing. I was looking forward to the attack on the Pegasus in the shipyards but it was even more weak than the other GINO battles, which is to say “slow and boring”. There’s no action in these sequences, just more matted explosions and bad camerawork. The later two spacebattles are equally mindless and equally boring. The 70s centurion battle, in which they, like their GINO counterparts, have an endless supply of ammunition, fire hundreds of rounds without hitting anything, and basically stand in place, is a good point to put a pizza in the microwave if you’re waiting for such a moment. You won’t miss much because there’s not much to miss.

If in a few years, some fan edits all of this together with the miniseries and Pegasus episodes to create an expanded story, this could have some value to it. The confrontation on the civilian ship is pretty good but this worthwhile 90 seconds isn’t enough to save the show. Kendra and Mancow’s encounter below decks is also pretty good but that 120 seconds also isn’t enough to save the show. The remaining worthy action probably composes another 120 seconds so in all, of a 90 minute presentation, I find 5.5 minutes to be worthwhile and 84.5 minutes to be a pure waste. This isn’t to say that its garbage because unlike much of GINO, it isn’t offensive and doesn’t tell me that my nation sucks and my president is evil, but it simply is a bunch of lifeless images flowing across the screen with no real value, at least to someone like me who isn’t a Kool-Aid drinking fanboy of this series.

This could have been done a whole lot better with a lot more entertainment as a straight episode fixed only on The Guardian (who is really just an old guy who rants slogans or a middle-aged guy who stayed in the bathtub too long and forgot everything other than the slogans).

If I'd have paid money to see this on DVD I'd have been quite upset. I'd still buy the DVD for the webisode freefall segement but it isn't part of Razor, so that's one more copy that will be available for the fanboys ... and I have no doubt the fanboys of GINO will love this thing. However, if you're not a fanboy of GINO, I'd recommend staying clear of this. Its purely GINO all the way and even for GINO, its not that good.



Sandy

[Martok2112]

If I'd have paid money to see this on DVD I'd have been quite upset. I'd still buy the DVD for the webisode freefall segement but it isn't part of Razor, so that's one more copy that will be available for the fanboys ... and I have no doubt the fanboys of GINO will love this thing. However, if you're not a fanboy of GINO, I'd recommend staying clear of this. Its purely GINO all the way and even for GINO, its not that good.



Sandy

Well...I wouldn't classify me as a fanboy, unless you wish to classify me as a hybrid fanboy. :) Because being classified a fanboy runs both ways in this fandom. :)

[Titon]

Well after how many years i watched 5 minutes just to see the TOS stuff and can't figure out if Moore did this just to piss us off or what but the CG cylon's were horrible.

I keep wondering if he was poking sticks at the original fans by putting forward such an unstellar version of our beloved Cylon's.

Crapfest.

:roll:

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Steve,

I'd call you a fanboy for both series. You look at both and enjoy what most others would call the weaker material despite some engrained flaws. That's usually the nature of a fanboy.

For Razor, they're charging $25 for this thing.

Can you honestly say that Razor gave the average viewer anything different than any two hours of GINO. I didn't see much there. The shipyard attack didn't much impress me and the actual battle sequences were weak. For all the flash, this was primarily another big "talking heads" storyline, and it wasn't very well done in my view. This could have been something strong but IMO, it was a patch job to change the overall perception of some things in S2 that Ron and company knew alienated viewers.

If I were to guess, I'd go as far as to say that the original series icons were thrown in to get the attention of those who were critical of the S2 developments (primarily orgiinal series fans) so they would hear the message.

I certainly didn't get the impression that this was the "story that needed to be told". It was some brief flash, a lot of fluff, and uncertain story fabric all around. That's why I say that if you're a fanboy, you'll love it, but otherwise, there isn't much there.

I'd say the same if it were an original series story that flashed back to the attack on the Colonies and widened that scope. As a fanboy for the original series I'd like it but I'd also have to be realistic and question what it provided the average viewer.


Sandy

[koenigrules]

It is going for $19.99 at amazon.com if you pre-order it! :wink:
KR

[Commander Taggart]

It'll be $5.99 at Wal-Mart before Christmas.

[Wild Boar]

Can you honestly say that Razor gave the average viewer anything different than any two hours of GINO.

I think the rhetorical answer to this question sums it up better than anything I've seen posted.

[Bishop37]

Well after how many years i watched 5 minutes just to see the TOS stuff and can't figure out if Moore did this just to piss us off or what but the CG cylon's were horrible.

I keep wondering if he was poking sticks at the original fans by putting forward such an unstellar version of our beloved Cylon's.

Crapfest.

:roll:

Hey Don, did you notice they even modelled the eye holes on the Cylons' helmets that the stunt guys see out of?

As for the crapfest, I've ran out of Cop Rock (http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=Wp7Nxwr5EY0&eurl=&iurl=http%3A//img.youtube.com/vi/Wp7Nxwr5EY0/default.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskL5SNPinw9FFx_dL7O8wyD4&amp=&rel=1&border=0).

[Martok2112]

Steve,

I'd call you a fanboy for both series. You look at both and enjoy what most others would call the weaker material despite some engrained flaws. That's usually the nature of a fanboy.

Aye. I could live with that. :D



For Razor, they're charging $25 for this thing.

I'd pay for it. It will be an extended version after all.



Can you honestly say that Razor gave the average viewer anything different than any two hours of GINO. I didn't see much there. The shipyard attack didn't much impress me and the actual battle sequences were weak. For all the flash, this was primarily another big "talking heads" storyline, and it wasn't very well done in my view. This could have been something strong but IMO, it was a patch job to change the overall perception of some things in S2 that Ron and company knew alienated viewers.

You might be surprised to find that quite a few new series fans were a wee bit disappointed as well. Personally, I enjoyed the battle scenes.




I certainly didn't get the impression that this was the "story that needed to be told". It was some brief flash, a lot of fluff, and uncertain story fabric all around. That's why I say that if you're a fanboy, you'll love it, but otherwise, there isn't much there.

Perhaps it wasn't really a story that needed to be told...but I still found it to be an interesting side story on just why the Pegasus went the route it did. I mean...it's no more or less a side story than: Hey, what happened to Cain at the Battle of Molecay in the original show.



I'd say the same if it were an original series story that flashed back to the attack on the Colonies and widened that scope. As a fanboy for the original series I'd like it but I'd also have to be realistic and question what it provided the average viewer.


Sandy

And if I'd read a little bit further, I would've found that I just echoed your final statement. LOL! D'oH!

I have to go to work now...but take care, and we'll chat again soon.

Steve (hybrid fanboy) :D

[JSC1]

I missed it. Probably a good thing.

I had work that day(and it was the day after Black Friday), and I had to go to Tractor Supply Co. to pick up some grain. Later that night I watched a bit of Disney Channel before turning the channel to watch Torchwood.

I forgot Razor was even on.

[Ham Tyler]

Since I've haven't watched an entire Gino episode since the mini, and there wasn't anything else on last night, I actually made an effort to watch the thing.

Got so bored with it, my wife and I popped "Starship Troopers" into the DVD.

Guess I'm officially done with it. I did drop the comics a few weeks ago, so I'm now GINO free.

Well, Later!

[Gemini1999]

I had it on in the background - mostly just to see if there were any differences between the screener that I'd already watched and the broadcast version....there weren't any.

It's an okay story, but not really anything special. I didn't really enjoy the intercutting of two timelines during the broadcast. It really is a storytelling device that's being overused these days IMHO. Yeah, we got a bit more backstory, but not on anything I wanted to know about. They just really didn't go very deep and most of the time was wasted with a new character - Kendra Shaw. I didn't like her, didn't care about her and after the incident with the group of survivors they encountered, I just wanted her dead.

I don't know why the Pegasus and her crew is so much of a focal point for TNS that they felt the need to go back to it. There is so much more that they could have done. They could have done something that focused on the original Cylon war with the colonists, or we could have at least gotten more backstory on what the Cylons were doing for 40 years besides sitting on their backsides and evolving.

It was an opportunity to do something really unique, but it was kind of just "there", you know...?

I do plan on renting the DVD to see the extra 20 minutes of story that got cut, though.

Bryan

[dkerin]

I'm curious to see the missing bits from the DVD. However I will never buy it. Anything above $0.97 is far too much. Will wait to borrow it from someone, or find someone who downloaded it.

From what I saw, all I have to say is if that horrible actress/character of Katee Sackhoff would not YELL "Come on! get them out of there!" over and over again while they were on a "secret" mission, then maybe the TOS CGI Cylons would not have know they were there. Yes Ron, we know she is supposed to be tought and manly, but even the stupidest man on a covert mission knows better than to YELL to the other team members.

For the love of God, she is the most embarassing modern cliche of the woman who is man that has passed the screen in over two decades. You should be ashamed of yourself Ron Moore and your poorly cliched writing skills. Please, maybe after the writers strike is over you can catch up and write on the level of other writers who live and work in 2007.

[Titon]

Hey Don, did you notice they even modelled the eye holes on the Cylons' helmets that the stunt guys see out of?


My point exactly. Can't believe....er no wait i can believe it was that bad.

I'm no character modeler but that was bad.

:roll:

[TwoBrainedCylon]

If you want to get picky, the raiders were off too. They narrowed at the aft, making them more of the reverse teardrop. Not a bad design really but in their flight they didn't seem to have the seem sweeping feel that the original raiders portrayed.

Sandy

[Scifipulse]

It'll be $5.99 at Wal-Mart before Christmas.

Not sure if they have done it over there. But they have packaged up all three seasons of Galactica here for £70 which is pretty poor. See when they get released here in the UK as single season box sets they retail for £50 so the fact that you can now get all three seasons for £70 on DVD can only mean one thing.

There having issues trying to shift them.

I mean its bloody hard in the high street to get a copy of the original series. Gino no such problem. Its still on the shelves cos no one freaking wants it.

[Kingfish]

I watched the hallmark channel Saturday night. Lloyd Bridges must be spinning in his grave.

[Tibbetts]

Over-all, it was good. They could've done the TOS cgi-stuff better though. :( That looked like shit. The fighters were cool, but the Centurions looked like they were a rush job. If they were going to put those in, they could've at least tried to do them justice.

As for the rest, it was done very well. I liked the flash-back stories with young Adama, and the story of Cain.

Too bad it couldn't have been another hour or two. But that was fine.

Now I just have to wait until May 2008. I guess that's the new date. Wish they'd settle on the damn date and air the last season already.


-Tibbetts

[Gemini1999]

Now I just have to wait until May 2008. I guess that's the new date. Wish they'd settle on the damn date and air the last season already.

May? I'd heard that the air date was bumped up to late March - that was just last week. I didn't see anything about it being pushed back a month.

Hmmmm....

Bryan

[StarshipTrooper]

When you decide to watch it, keep lots of coffee or Mountain Dew on hand.

Hi,

You were right! I watched it Sunday night on my DVR. Admittedly though, I shouldn't combine gym day with apartment-scrubbing day, and then top it off with a viewing of Razor...

Regards,

Nathan